Not feeling scared all the time

[PassiveAgressiveQueen]

Trigger warning: Navel gazing.

Ok i have previously been roasted on here for saying I don't feel very vulnerable, and told that somehow the fact i don't invalidates all the women who do. Well i read the guardian article today and this line jumped out at me

"Girls approaching adolescence are considered vulnerable and protected, while boys are set free to roam and explore. That has consequences for their behaviour and expectations throughout their life."

As i approached adolescence my mum had a nervous breakdown (messy violent divorce from my dad) and didn't know i existed as far as i could tell until i was about 16-17. So i wasn't cosseted, i wasn't protected, i left home at 8:30 in the holidays roamed the streets until dinner time. As i got older i had friends who weren't allowed on the bus to visit me whilst i was going on the train from our suburb town to London for days out.

I am just wondering if this is where the difference comes from really.

Please don't roast me again I am not mentally strong.

[SpaghettiAndMeatballs]

I think that you might have hit it on the head.

I'm the oldest of 4, from a village where I always felt very safe, my parents let me take the train to town when I was 11, I've always been very independent (moved out when I turned 18 etc), and as a rule I don't feel very vulnerable - although I am aware, as I have been followed into shops, attacked etc, it just hasn't hit all the way home.

I wouldn't deny that women are more vulnerable though - and certainly I am a bit careful, but then I've lived a lot of places, so the UK feels very safe to me anyway, and I do things like sit in the back of taxis with my kids and no seatbelt where I am now, because that's completely normal and my risk assessment says that it's unlikely something bad's going to happen.

The UK in general is extremely risk-averse, and it affects everything.

[ssd]

"boys are set free to roam and explore"

mmmmm.....try telling that to teenage boys scared to be out after dark for fear of gangs/knives/intimidation

my 16 yr old doesn't ever go out as he doesnt want to drink or take drugs, like all his friends...where's the freedom to roam for him??

this idea that boys live a joyous existence whilst girls are kept in is so far from the truth I dont recognise it, not in my lifetime or my kids

[NoLoveofMine]

Girls are at constant risk of male violence for no other reason than they're female. Teenage girls are regularly harassed and in some cases even sexually assaulted and raped (in cases which rarely make much news), misogynist hate crimes, at all hours of the day. Street harassment is something most girls will have experiences and is how the intimidation starts, a notification you exist in public to be judged by boys and men who can do anything they choose if they wish, who enjoy making you uncomfortable. This harassment and such attacks are perpetrated sometimes by teenage boys as well as adult men. Girls are at risk for no other reason than being female and this risk is abhorrent and particular to girls (and women).

[NoLoveofMine]

I couldn't say where the difference comes from PassiveAggressiveQueen but it could be in part down to the particular risk of sexualised violence women and girls have due to our sex - that there are men and boys who will target women and girls for such violence purely down to being female. Street harassment is sort of a reminder of this in a way, and starts for many girls at a young age (often in school uniform). This is sort of a reminder of your vulnerability, that boys and men are looking at you in this way, see you in this way and could choose to act upon it. Added to this that, in general, males are stronger than females (my 15 year old brother could certainly overpower me for example) so this amplifies the risk and vulnerability in a way.

I'm the oldest of three with the other two both boys and I don't think my parents are bringing my brothers up differently in terms of going out but I think there are ways many become aware of specific vulnerabilities of being girls (and then women). I'm probably not articulating this very well as I'm writing it quickly as I think and with some distractions!

[NoLoveofMine]

Also, I don't "feel scared all the time". I actually feel quite comfortable walking around my local area day or night, not quite so much in the area my school is a few Tube stops away but that's largely due to experiences of street harassment (it's where my first was when I was walking to school). It's more being aware of the risk simply for being female (and that vulnerability) for me which I suppose is always somwhere in my mind.

[TheSparrowhawk]

The vast majority of women are smaller and weaker than the vast majority of men. So just due to pure practicality, if a man wants to attack a woman, it's likely he'll win and do her some serious damage. Add to that the fact that men intimidate, harass and attack women on a very regular basis without much fear of punishment and women are, in a totally objective sense, vulnerable.

Whether you feel vulnerable or not is an entirely different thing. But I imagine that if a woman could live for a day as a man she would be shocked at how much different it is. I think women just get accustomed to a certain level of fear. They're not quivering or shaking, they might not even consciously think about it but I think the vast majority of women factor danger into every aspect of their lives in a way men don't even think of.

[thedancingbear]

Sparrowhawk, how does that sit with men and boys being almost twice as likely to be the victim of violence as women and girls?

Needless to say, the perpetrators are overwhelmingly other males.

[TheSparrowhawk]

That's a good question dancingbear. Do you know whether some of those stats are due to fights or is it all due to assault? Also, do they relate to stranger violence (as in random violence on the street) or do they include partner violence - because I would imagine that when you take all violence into account the numbers become more even?

I do think women are made very aware of their vulnerability and are made to feel that if they get attacked, it's partially their fault (for being out late, for being drunk) and I think that adds to the tendency for women to factor their vulnerability into their daily lives.

What do you think?

[TheSparrowhawk]

I would also add that I'd imagine once sexual violence is added in to the mix, women are more often victims of violence? Or is that not the case?

[thedancingbear]

The figures include DV and sexual violence.

Clearly, they would involve fights too. But in my experience, 'fights' are rarely like they are in films, with two equal participants ('shall we take this outside?') - it's generally one person being the aggressor, and the other taking steps to defend themselves. To suggest otherwise would, on the whole, be a little victim blame-y in my view.

[thedancingbear]

I do think women are made very aware of their vulnerability and are made to feel that if they get attacked, it's partially their fault (for being out late, for being drunk) and I think that adds to the tendency for women to factor their vulnerability into their daily lives.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

[TheSparrowhawk]

The stats from the ONS say that women are more likely to be victims of 'intimate violence' than men - am I reading something wrong?

[TheSparrowhawk]

Women are also five times more likely than men to experience sexual assault.

[thedancingbear]

No, that's accurate. And the picture is the same for DV (though less emphatically so). But from what I can make out, the sheer volume of bog-standard ABH, GBH etc. crimes against men and boys - which will include most 'stranger' attacks - more than compensates.

[TheSparrowhawk]

Ah I see. I can't find the stats - they seem to very strictly separate 'violent crime' and 'Domestic abuse, sexual assault and stalking.' For violent crime the stats are definitely skewed - men are victims in significantly greater numbers but for domestic abuse, sexual assault and stalking women far outnumber men.

[TheSparrowhawk]

From what I can see, 4.3 million women were victims of DV in 2016, while 2.2 million men were victims. The total number of incidents of violent crime (regardless of the gender of the victim) in 2016 was 1.3 million. That's before sexual violence and stalking are factored in. So it's not possible for men to be victims of violence in greater numbers than women, surely?

[TheSparrowhawk]

Bear in mind also that the violent crime statistics include pushing and shoving and 55% of the reported were recorded as 'assault without injury.' All assault is wrong of course but it's hard to say that men are more at risk from violence when looking directly at the numbers and the nature of the assaults.

[DJBaggySmalls]

Taking precautions doesn't mean you live in fear.
I'm not afraid unless I perceive a risk or potential threat. I know how to read behaviour patterns and calculate risk.
I was a latch key kid. I had all the freedom, it didnt keep me safe from male violence. I taught myself survival skills because I had to.

[TheSparrowhawk]

If you take precautions, it means you feel vulnerable - otherwise, why would you take precautions???

[NoLoveofMine]

It's also in my opinion impossible to always take effective precautions against male violence (not that we should ever have to take any). Women and girls are attacked everywhere by men and boys: in their homes, in clubs, at parties, on the street, in parks and even, increasingly, in schools (incidences of sexual assault in schools continue to rise). The only way to stop male violence is, as I don't need to tell anyone here, for those perpetrating it to stop.

[AngelsSins]

Nope, I moved out of home at 16, had a job and my own place and didn't rely on my mum for anything. I still feel vulnerable at times because men have taught me that I am. I feel vulnerable at times because I know that if I am raped, my rapist is unlikely to face prison, and even if he does, people will question my actions more than they question his.

I think the title of this thread is a little offensive, I'm sure very few women feel scared all the time. Admitting to sometimes feeling vulnerable or acknowledging that women ARE more vulnerable to sexual abuse, does not mean we walk around shaking in fear.

[SomeDyke]

Just to add that looking back to my student years, the issues that did make me feel afraid were the street harassment I got -- we're talking saturday afternoons, broad daylight in a busy city centre, getting grabbed in a crowd outside John Lewis, or followed and harassed by a man on a bike in a busy park in Oxford on a lovely sunny day.......
When I told my (male) colleagues about this, that it wasn't just walking alone at night -- they didn't believe me, because of course it didn't happen to them. So, I got them to walk behind me one day. They soon changed their opinion after that!
It's the feeling that you're being denied public space full stop, not just be careful as regards times/areas.

And of course, most of this I never reported, so never recorded.

Oh, and as regards physical violence, the sort I was more likely to see was cases like when a lesbian friend was just thumped and left unconscious by a total random stranger when leaving a gay venue. What the violence is for and who it is directed against and by whom is vastly different from the simple statistical 'blokes more likely to be a victim of violent assault than women'................