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Activism Around Last Week's Trans Violence?

(80 Posts)
YetAnotherSpartacus Mon 18-Sep-17 10:19:59

I'm a bit under the pump with work, but I have been thinking about last week's violence against Maria (specifically) at Speakers' Corner before the gender seminar and generally before and after the event with tweets about punching terfs and enjoying watching terfs get punched.

I've been thinking that if almost any other group was substituted for 'terf' (which of course means 'woman') it would be seen as a hate crime (at least in an informal sense). I've been quite shocked about some of the things I've been reading, but I've also been wondering how we can save them, and where we should save them (i.e. links and screenshots, all in one place) and about what we can do with them. Finally they are publicly showing their true colours and I think this gives us an opportunity to act.

Have people been using twitter to pressure the Met Police?
Can we tweet some kind of link with an accumulation of the threats, gloats and actual violence to all MPs?
Can we do the same to media sources?
Can we do the same to all potential philanthropic funding bodies who fund these activists?
Can we tweet all feminist organisations (especially those associated with violence against women such as shelters, etc.) with this information?

Caveat (I don't use twitter).

Beyond this, can we use other means such as boring old print to print out a selection of threats and send them to MPs along with a letter saying we feel threatened and unsafe and we want them to make sure that women's rights are protected?

What else could we do?

I thought I'd set up this thread to suggest action and also to collate ideas...

YetAnotherSpartacus Mon 18-Sep-17 10:36:53

Forgot to say, this isn't just about the Gender Recognition Act. It's about showing the TAs for who they are so as to try and prevent things like women's shelters opening up services to men who call themselves trans, venues installing sex-neutral toilets, funding bodies essentially funding groups who practice violence against women, making people think criticaly about the TA ideology (that emphasises the transing of young children) and suchlike...

Blanchefleur Mon 18-Sep-17 11:59:34

I've been thinking that if almost any other group was substituted for 'terf' (which of course means 'woman') it would be seen as a hate crime

Yes, me too. As far as I can see, threatening or inciting violence against a person/people is only a 'hate crime' on the grounds of race, religion, sexual orientation, disability and gender identity. Biological sex doesn't seem to be included.

I do remember reading that Rape Crisis Scotland were calling for incitement of hatred against women to be made an offence, not sure if that's still ongoing (I'm in England).

NYConcreteJungle Mon 18-Sep-17 12:03:01

I recommend you are careful about privacy, use an activist email to start your social media accounts and either a specialist mobile dongle or library IP address to protect yourselves from being doxxed.

BeyondNoone Mon 18-Sep-17 14:29:14

We're surely covered under "gender identity" if our alleged gender identity is that of "TERF"? In relation to trans and "cis", we are agender (or was it non-binary? I forget). Didn't think of that, did they.

FactsAreNotMean Mon 18-Sep-17 14:53:53

To add to NYConcreteJungle, you can also use a free VPN when you are using twitter etc which will disguise your location.

Speaking of gender identity, has anyone read the stonewall definition of trans? It includes genderless, agender, Gender-fluid, Non-binary, Gender-variant, and bi-gender. By that definition I think everyone on these threads could define themselves as trans. Maybe we should all join Stonewall! <tongue sort of in cheek!>

SentimentalLentil Mon 18-Sep-17 14:54:54

I think there's a real misunderstanding of what gender critical means or what the belief is. I think lots of people just think we hate transsexuals and just think they shouldn't be allowed to exist.
I wonder if there's a good and clear info graph about how we don't care what they wear or why they call themselves and actually we'd fight alongside with them for their right to do that, we just don't believe that wearing a dress = woman.
Anyone good at drawing cartoons?

FactsAreNotMean Mon 18-Sep-17 15:07:23

Useless at drawing but I think you're right - we need to be clear about what we have an issue with.

The irony is that in many ways the TERFs they label us are probably very untransphobic. Personally I don't give a rats ass what you wear, what your name is, if you're a guy with a full face of make up. I have no prejudice against you. I don't deny you any human rights. I don't deny you the right to work, to live, to love, to be educated. I only object where you are trying to take rights and protection away from women. That is all.

When they shout about people who are violent against trans people they're looking in the wrong place.

hackmum Mon 18-Sep-17 15:54:02

Facts: "When they shout about people who are violent against trans people they're looking in the wrong place."

And they know that, don't you think? They don't hate feminists because we're anti-trans. They hate us because we're feminists.

PurpleSpaceshipOnesieSpartacus Mon 18-Sep-17 16:03:04

Is there an organisation similar to Stonewall specifically campaigning for women? (I think I know the answer, am clutching at straws... and hoping one of you brave souls will undertake to create one and make it a huge success before the TRA bandwagon rolls much further... you know, since the WEP was such a let down...)

(Should I add a <lighthearted>?)

FactsAreNotMean Mon 18-Sep-17 16:04:11

Sadly I think that's true. I'm just fed up of seeing claims that terfs support trans genocide. So they give is a name, define an ideology they believe we have, then call us genocide based on....nothing. someone earlier was highlighting the work of the creator of terfism and I felt like yelling there's no such thing. But I'm not a feminist theorist so I don't want to get in to a pissing match about what a 20 year old book might say.

YetAnotherSpartacus Mon 18-Sep-17 16:10:05

I think that's an important point purplespaceship. The TRAs are being funded to campaign through all sorts of grants to organisations, etc. That's why I want to see what we can do to cut their activism funding lifeline by showing funders how absolutely loony many are and also make sure that women's organisations don't sell women short by refusing to campaign for us for fear of being seen as transphobic.

FactsAreNotMean Mon 18-Sep-17 17:13:33

I think that's very important YetAnotherSpartacus. The WEP, for example, are a gigantic disappointment as they seem to be thoroughly wedded to trans ideals. But how are organisations like the charming edinburgh action for trans health group, who posted so many vile comments encouraging violence, funded? That needs to be looked at. Are these groups publically funded? If so, who can we write to in order to object that funding is being used to promote violence against women.

Lemonjello Mon 18-Sep-17 18:39:46

Anyone good at drawing cartoons?

Not promising artistic genius but can have a go! Any ideas for what would be good? Am thinking something with vitruvian man maybe??? Or the statue of David??

SweetGrapes Mon 18-Sep-17 18:40:48

Am also thinking about the official position of stonewall on all these threats of violence and actual violence. They are one of the organisations supporting my workplace to be more inclusive.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Sep-17 18:55:20

We're surely covered under "gender identity" if our alleged gender identity is that of "TERF"? In relation to trans and "cis", we are agender (or was it non-binary? I forget). Didn't think of that, did they.

This is an interesting point.

I dont think we should define ourselves as TERF even though thats what they call us; because it actually means trans-exclusionary.

But the point about being agender/ non binary - in that we dont want non-biological stereotypes defining what a woman is. I believe removing gender stereotypes of women is the fundamental point of feminism.

I dont even think its agender/ non-binary as I think that means being fluid between the spectrum.

Its kind of like being a gender atheist I think. I dont believe masculine/ feminine should have this amount of importance attached to it. I think thats going backwards and reinforcing the stereotypes I would like to remove.

Its basically like they have created a rainbow of shades of gender rather than a two boxes which within I would hope had each a full rainbow. I find that much more fluid and inconspicuous and free; everyone can be whoever they want anyway.

Its just we still retain honesty for the purposes of data collection and purposes where it matters such as sport, health and vulnerable situations.

Nobody talks about any of this though and its sad because the implications are quite far reaching.

PurpleSpaceshipOnesieSpartacus Mon 18-Sep-17 19:01:26

Its just we still retain honesty for the purposes of data collection and purposes where it matters such as sport, health and vulnerable situations.

That should be our rallying cry to those we need to persuade. It expresses it perfectly.

PurpleSpaceshipOnesieSpartacus Mon 18-Sep-17 19:05:33

It makes a nice gentle counter to the 'punch a terf/no debate' hate being spouted.

FactsAreNotMean Mon 18-Sep-17 19:07:55

Mine too Sweetgrapes.

Lemonjello...rough thoughts from me:
-the whole "born in the wrong body" concept; I don't believe you have an independent soul, I'm not religious, your brain doesn't exist outside of the body so how can it land in the wrong body IYSWIM? So maybe something around that?
-Gender roles; something showing the statue of David doing lots of things that would be stereotypically female, but still being a man? Almost like a comic strip of David's day?

Or what about parallel universe cartoons showing the different outcomes for a child told that gender's bollocks versus one told they're the wrong sex? So maybe start out with a cartoon of a young girl in a dress, playing with cars and dolls and a caption like "Alexa doesn't care that you think cars are for boys, she's just having fun".
Then each version shows a version of the conversation where Alexa says she likes playing with cars and wearing trousers like the boys, one responds with "maybe you're really a boy" and the other gives a "gender rules suck, do what you love" conversation and then follow through to see the different outcomes for "alex" vs "alexa" perhaps?

Or a series of stories about girls who didn't like being girls for whatever reason but are now successful and still non confirmist in whatever way (you could consider looks, sexuality, jobs etc) but point out that in all of these cases she's still female?

GardenGeek Mon 18-Sep-17 19:12:58

It is surreal that chant.

FactsAreNotMean Mon 18-Sep-17 19:15:23

Cross posted there with lots of folk!

What about somehow highlighting the belief based nature of this (the gender atheist analogy chimes with me) as an awful lot of the people who are so convinced of this argument would be the first to argue against enforced religious belief.

That might make a good cartoon actually

GardenGeek Mon 18-Sep-17 19:16:11

sorry forgot to link - meant this chant 'punch a terf/no debate hmm

SentimentalLentil Mon 18-Sep-17 20:16:30

I was thinking just one of those conversation cartoons.

'Hey how come you're following some TERF scum on twitter now, I didn't think you were like that!'

'TERF is a nasty slur that people use to shut down a debate about gender'

'Well what's the debate? People have the right to be whoever they want to be and it's disgusting to want to stop people from existing and expressing themselves they way they want, that's like a nazi'

'Well gender critical doesn't mean you want to stop people from doing what they want, in fact it's in favour of that. We believe that gender is a social construct that harms people and work to rid the world of gender stereotypes so people can just be who they are'

'Like non binary?'

'No not like non binary because non binary implies there's a set personality traits for men and women in the first place that you can switch from. We don't believe that what's between your legs comes with a personality, we are just people.'

'Well I still don't see what it has to do with you, why can't you just let people live their lives'

'We'd love to but when people say 'I like wearing dresses so I'm a women' that reinforces the idea that what makes someone a woman is wearing nice dresses, it doesn't break down the gender stereotypes it builds them up and that's harmful to everybody.'

'So you don't think there's any difference between men and women?'

'No we do think there are differences but that is comes from biology and not culture. We have differences in our bodies, and women are often oppressed because of these biological traits and we need exclusively female spaces to talk about these things'

'Like what?'

'Giving birth to a baby for example, only biologically females bodies are able to give birth and it's important that we are allowed to talk about our experiences as women.'

'So how can I tell the difference between what's been socially constructed and what's biological'

'Well social constructs are things that change due to time or geography, and innate biology is things that don't.
Imagine you've been born on a desert island the things you'd keep like having a period or the ability to get pregnant is innate biology, and all the stuff you'd lose like wearing a skirt is a social construct.'

'What about intersex people?'

'There are people born intersex but the number is very small and just because they exist does not stop male and female bodies existing. Some people are born with one leg but humans still have two legs'

'So you don't want to stop transexual people presenting as they wish?'

'God no; we don't care. Wear what you want, sleep with whichever consenting adult you want, call yourself what you want, but allow women to have spaces where they can talk to only other biologically female women about things that only affect biologically female bodies'

'Well what about the support that transexuals need?'

'we are 100% behind transsexuals getting support for their experiences, we think they should have the same rights as everyone else and access to facilities that support them, we just don't think that should come at the detriment to women's spaces'

'Hmmm why is everyone shouting punch a terf on twitter then? you must be hiding something'

'Nope.'

SentimentalLentil Mon 18-Sep-17 20:17:24

Sorry I should indicate that's supposed to be two people talking to each other

Blanchefleur Mon 18-Sep-17 20:25:25

Is there an organisation similar to Stonewall specifically campaigning for women?

I've been having a look. Does anyone know anything about these two?

End Violence Against Women
www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/

Rights of Women
rightsofwomen.org.uk/

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