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What causes women to become trans activists?

(245 Posts)
TheChampagneGalop Thu 14-Sep-17 18:24:23

I mean the type of activists that appeared to disrupt the recent meeting about gender in London.

From what I've read about this incident in Speaker's corner there were more women than men protesting and harassing women trying to go to that meeting.
I watched the video and the male violence was of course disturbing and alarming (and criminal!), but the mindless mantra chants from the women about terfs also disturbed me.

SentientCushion Thu 14-Sep-17 18:33:20

Same reason so many women are quick to say they aren't a feminist.
Women are conditioned to be 'caring' and 'unselfish' and that their survival depends on being liked and accepted by men.

I also think that there's a lack of understanding of what feminism is and they haven't read the seminal texts and just have an idea of what it is from memes and fluffy blogs.

NoLoveofMine Thu 14-Sep-17 18:34:59

I think some are so invested in it, having thought it was just about supporting a marginalised group without looking into all the ramifications that now the only voices they here are those on the trans activist side and they're too far in to see any other point of view, if that makes sense. I can only go by the ones I know (not activists but most girls certainly of my age who attend the Feminist Society at school are entirely on board with the trans activist line) - they started off being simply opposed to "transphobia" some time ago, moved swiftly on to anyone opposing a dissenting feminist view being a "TERF", then before long those who are standing up for women's spaces and against all the worrying things going on now are "TERFs" and there's no room in the middle, if that makes sense? You're either a TERF or you "centre trans people". They basically dismissed some feminists as "TERFs" some time ago, before at least I and most I know were aware of the extent of it (anyone who defines as a woman is one, the regressive views of innate gender suggested by "cis" etc) so now those not on the trans activist side have to be dismissed as "TERFs" who must be silenced. That's the impression I get from those I know of; as I've posted before there are only a couple of friends I can actually talk about this openly with.

Elendon Thu 14-Sep-17 19:34:55

Those women who say they have never experienced sexism or discrimination.

Those women who are coerced in relationships.

Those women who heap praise on men for doing everyday things such as change a nappy or brush their daughter's hair.

JynOdan Thu 14-Sep-17 19:35:16

This.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth Thu 14-Sep-17 19:40:15

I think it's youth, ignorance, unwillingness to challenge their peers, laziness, lack of ability (and lack of willingness) to challenge their own views. I think Uni campuses these days are like some Identifinarian Lord of the Flies

That, and it's the 'woke' view.

NoLoveofMine Thu 14-Sep-17 19:45:51

That, and it's the 'woke' view.

I definitely think this is considered to be the case.

QueenLaBeefah Thu 14-Sep-17 19:58:22

They're just a bit thick.

MentalLentil Thu 14-Sep-17 20:24:32

What's the woke view? I've not heard the term.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth Thu 14-Sep-17 20:31:37

It's the latest term for the yoff to say adults are all pricks

Neverknowing Thu 14-Sep-17 20:31:42

Because it's cool and if you go against it you're a transphobe and people hate you.

BigDeskBob Thu 14-Sep-17 20:34:31

From the urban dictionary

"A state of perceived intellectual superiority one gains by reading The Huffington Post."
And
"Being Woke means being aware.. Knowing whats going on in the community"

DJBaggySmalls Thu 14-Sep-17 20:37:40

There are no women like them where I live, but I live in a deprived inner city area.
They seem like young women from a similar Uni background. I dont see any struggling single parents among them. Or doctors, nurses or midwives. I havent seen any women who have a job, or older women.

PencilsInSpace Thu 14-Sep-17 20:40:08

What SentientCushion and AssignedPerfectAtBirth said.

I engaged with a couple of them before the attack happened. They were incredibly patronising and seemed to think that if only I met a trans person I'd understand and we could all just get along. They were very excited about having a dialogue because they'd 'never met a TERF before' - yes, those actual words with a big shiney eyed cultish smile, followed by genuine surprise that I was not happy to be called a TERF.

They exist in a bubble. Feminists I talk to, here and elsewhere, are well aware of what transactivists are saying - what their arguments are, what stats they will quote, what language they like to use, what language will cause them a total shitfit etc. TA's arguments are incredibly predictable once you've read or heard a few.

These youngsters appeared genuinely surprised that TERF was not a word feminists use about ourselves and they had apparently never heard the reasons why so many of us find cis offensive. They seemed genuinely surprised that I was advocating for everybody to be able to dress how they want, do what they want etc. regardless of gender stereotypes.

I was surprised at this because when I've come across that sort of thing online I've always assumed it was faux naivete. I now think there are a proportion of TAs who maybe really have never heard the feminist position properly - because they block us straight away and fear denunciation if they engage with someone whose cousin's dog was rumoured to once have been walked by a TERF.

So I'm going to try to be a bit more patient with those who do engage, in the hope that they're just young and in a bubble and still have a chance to grow the fuck up smile

TimbuktuTimbuktu Thu 14-Sep-17 20:42:34

I have a lot of sympathy for them to be honest. Most of the girls there yesterday were so young. I know it doesn't absolve them of responsibility but they have grown up with the growing trans cult and I suspect it's very difficult to think your way out of it. Especially when all the books they could read to help them are basically banned as TERF hate speech.

I met a really lovely woman at the protest who said that she found the whole event very difficult as only a year or two ago she could have been a protester. She had obviously managed to eventually get out of it but not before it had a very significant effect on her.

She also said that she would guess that the majority of female bodied people there would identify as non binary, genderqueer or some other sort of trans identity. It's part of belonging to a club.

As far as I could tell the main thing that makes you gender queer is dying bits of your hair funny colours hmm

WillowWeeping Thu 14-Sep-17 20:48:30

I think many of them are young women with low self esteem who don't fit into the mainstream.

They want to be liked and perceived as special and so sacrifice themselves to the cult of trans in the hope that they'll be treated well instead of carving out their own way.

SentientCushion Thu 14-Sep-17 20:55:18

When I was younger it was being a witch or vampire.

I think it's because they jump into feminism from the middle and don't start being critical from the ground up (or at all). They want to do the best with what's here rather than asking why it all exists like this in the first place and trying to burn it down.
Individualism and stories have trumped questioning structures and creating ideas. They've taken the idea of the personal is political and stretched it to the point it's become diluted so much they think that merely existing is the only thing that matters.
No one is allowed to throw an idea around anymore, no one can play in the way that is so important in developing your own thoughts about things. When I was younger we used to have huge debates about things and I used to love listening to the way ideas tasted coming out my mouth to see if I agreed with them. I wouldn't dare do that if I was now in case I said the wrong thing and was dragged through the coals.
It's such a stifling place to exist and I feel sorry for them.

MentalLentil Thu 14-Sep-17 20:55:39

Happy to stick with the 'sleep' view then. I'm so out of touch that I only started hearing about this gender self identification business a few months ago, and I'm glad MN is where I heard it. The articulate gender critical feminists here won me over before I got stuck in what would have been a reflexive support for the trans rights activists.

In fact I think a lot of the women aligned with TRAs will have just gotten caught up in the rhetoric of a minority group that feels it's being discriminated against. On the surface, without questioning the logic of it, what kind of backwards monster wouldn't support trans rights? It's too easy to get trapped in a social media bubble where you're only hearing one side of the argument. I can see how it happens, and I'm really glad it didn't happen to me.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth Thu 14-Sep-17 20:55:52

I think the transcult fuckers have managed to kidnap the kids who would have been hippies/punks/goths/emus etc in 'ye olden days'.

Sure there are genuinely people with gender dysphoria, but as in all the sub cultures, there were people willing to advantage of the situation for their own gratification and also recruit those who would support their cause.

The problem is that, with social media, it has taken more of a hold.

PencilsInSpace Thu 14-Sep-17 20:58:27

It's such a stifling place to exist and I feel sorry for them.

Yup.

BelligerentGardenPixies Thu 14-Sep-17 21:12:35

I hate to admit it even to myself but I reckon if I was a young women instead of a middle aged harridan now, I would be in danger of being swept up by the TA's.

As a young women I had poor self esteem, poor boundaries and a chronic case of caretaker/rescuer-itis. I likely would have seen them as a marginalised and oppressed group and may have felt compelled to stand up for them. I've always had a modicum of critical thinking ability so I hope I would have eventually seen the light but then I suppose it depends on how much indoctrination by the transborg a person is exposed to, as to whether they could extricate their thinking.

PricklyBall Thu 14-Sep-17 21:14:30

I don't know how widespread it is, but I read one former supporter say that she'd been totally taken in by the elision of "misgendering is literal violence and TERFs kill transwomen" and "transwomen suffer a higher murder rate than anyone else" and had actually come to the conclusion that "TERFs" were killing transwomen. It was only once she escaped the cult she discovered that in fact it was genuinely violent, genuinely transphobic men who were killing transwomen, mostly black and ethnic minority transwomen in the sex trade - in fact the same violent, misogynistic men that kill women.

MissHavishamsleftdaffodil Thu 14-Sep-17 21:15:37

In a group I used to run which was about half LGBT, we had one trans member and a group of older women who came over all motherly and protective of them, spent a lot of time nurturing them and fought their battles for them. They were fed a lot of TRA information, recited a lot of it with no real idea of what it meant or the implications, but when the leaders and I committed an act of 'transphobia' (gently explaining that the rule about not spamming all members with off topic email did apply to them too, as they kept sending out TRA propaganda to everyone- they should have been excepted from this rule as this was 'a ban on trans positive messaging' apparently) the trans member didn't say a thing, but quietly wound up the women, told them what to say and set them in the direction of the group (volunteer) leaders who worked damned hard for that group.

It was a very much women dominated group and any male members ended up with a tribe of doting older women hanging on their every word. It was also the case (used to drive me nuts) that if one of the women leaders gave information or put out a notice, there were some women members who would insist they didn't understand until one of the male leaders said it. On one occasion one of the male leaders copied and pasted exactly what I'd said: it was perfectly apparent that it didn't count until it was heard from someone with a penis.

SentientCushion Thu 14-Sep-17 21:27:19

Urgh my Mam is like that. She runs groups for transexuals and mothers them all. It's weird.

SentientCushion Thu 14-Sep-17 21:29:41

And she claims to be a radical feminist and brought me up on a diet of Greer and Dworkin she really should know better.

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