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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

White women- it's all your fault

477 replies

WeldMeDaphne · 19/08/2017 22:27

I will preface this by saying that I am indeed a white woman. And I realise this affords me a lot of privilege.
Among a lot of the rhetoric around the Events unfolding in the US (mostly Charlottesville), I've seen a number of open letters to white women about our complicity in the neo-nazi and white supremacist movement in the US and elsewhere. Clearly those women marching last week on the nazi side were white, but there was a lot of suggestion that those white women not marching but associated with men marching (wives girlfriends etc) were just as culpable as the men wielding torches and assault rifles. I guess I would like some help understanding how this is a white woman issue rather than the white men being responsible for their own actions? I get that one of those pieces said those men are going home to pie cooked by their doting wives but I just feel as though a man who holds those views and has no issue with demonstrating them publically is unlikely to be a caring loving husband?
I am fully prepared to listen to all view points and I totally understand that the people on these marches are white, but they're mostly men, right? Sonhow is this women's fault?

OP posts:
dudsville · 19/08/2017 22:32

I'm not aware of the argument. Everything is multifaceted. People who cause pain and suffering are directly responsible for their actions. People who associate with people who cause pain and suffering without standing up or moving away can be linked to those actions. We'll never know if they are coerced, supporters or actively working to help solve the problem.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:34

I completely agree with you and two of my closest friends - who are WOC - have made these points to me on a few issues.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:35

Also as they have pointed out to me a lot of the people who come out with that line are white "left wing" men...

SerfTerf · 19/08/2017 22:36

I guess I would like some help understanding how this is a white woman issue rather than the white men being responsible for their own actions?

White supremacism is not the fault of "white men" either.

It's the fault of white supremacists.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:38

@ClaireShrugged is fantastic on this and many other issues on Twitter.

AfunaMbatata · 19/08/2017 22:38

People say things when they are hurt and angry. It's easy to lash out at other women.

SylviaPoe · 19/08/2017 22:40

The women who are married to white supremacists are very unlikely to be reading these open letters, so I'm not really sure who they are aimed at.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:43

Well the women who are married to white supremacists are white supremacists themselves and vile people.

MorrisZapp · 19/08/2017 22:45

Where are these open letters?

scaryclown · 19/08/2017 22:46

I agree. If men being dickheads weren't rewarded and enabled by women who seem to think being a massive dickhead is a massive turn on, then a lot of world problems would be sorted.

If Osama Bin Laden was able to get a girlfriend who loved him for who he is, not just what he can do, then we might not have had 9-11 etc.

AfunaMbatata · 19/08/2017 22:46

Then they should state that it is white supremacist women who are at fault too.

Foniks · 19/08/2017 22:46

From what I've read, it's not supposed to be women's fault exactly, just that we shouldn't accept it by being with these types of men. For example, one thing I watched had the wife of a clansman who'd sew his robes for him.
Those types of men don't deserve that kind of looking after.

I read a forum with some black American women discussing it too, they felt that the racism against them is often different to the racism a black man has to deal with (true) and that while they're there fighting against the crap they get as black women, not just as black people, feminism has sort of left them behind and their issues don't matter because they don't affect all women, so were feeling like white feminists care less about them then they do each other and that the issues they had to deal with as black women were not very important to anybody but themselves. They just expected it to be all women together and thought more people would understand what they deal with.

Realistically though, feminism and not being racist aren't even connected. Somebody could be a die hard feminist and still be racist, so complaining about some women supporting those men, it doesn't make sense. It's no different to how loads of people always talk about wanting equality for all, but really still have bigoted views against a certain group and don't include them in that. A woman doesn't even have to meet that kind of man for her to be racist. You just can't connect the two really. Look how many people who fought for gay rights are racist, or how many who fight against racism are homophobic. Wanting more rights for one group doesn't mean you want them for another, a woman could be a loud racist and a loud feminist. Or be a feminist and married to a white supremacist. Or be neither!

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:47

If a woman chooses to be with a white supremacist she is endorsing that and is as bad, and probably holds the same views herself. We shouldn't infantalise women: women are as capable as being abhorrent racists as men.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:48

WOC have to deal with racism and misogyny, which is why many are the most passionate feminists there are.

LadyMaryCrawley1922 · 19/08/2017 22:49

It's pure twattery. I'm a left wing feminist who's never even been to America, what the fuck have neo-nazi's in Charlottesville have to do with me? Nothing, that's what.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:49

Foniks has put anything I'm trying to say far more articulately.

MorrisZapp · 19/08/2017 22:51

So it's ok for black women to be with men who promote the bitches/ho's strand of 'urban music' but white women must choose their partners more wisely?

SylviaPoe · 19/08/2017 22:53

This is just turning into a general discussion of ethnicity and feminism now.

The open letters aren't to feminists in particular. They're not to white women as a group either.

From what the OP has said, they're to women in relationships with white supremacists.

Is there a link to these letters?

AvoidingCallenetics · 19/08/2017 22:53

I would think that in successful relationships people choose partners whose views (on big issues) are broadly aligned. I doubt that a woman could be in a relationship with someone who holds white supremacist views and not be of a similar mindset. It's not like being a tory and being married to a labour voter.

NoLoveofMine · 19/08/2017 22:54

What a ridiculous comment MorrisZapp, not only suggesting all WOC are black but holding women who have to deal with racism and also misogyny from people of all races to such a high standard. White women have white privilege and can easily choose not to endorse racism.

ASAS · 19/08/2017 22:55

Yes, I often wondered over the past week how all that's happened is the alleged fault of women. I also read the, "Hey there all black women, who gives you more problems white supremacists or black men?" stuff on instagram and just thought how incredibly sad it is that our expectations of men are so low that women are of course responsible for it all.

Heather's mother has been, it must be said, an astonishing source of clear cutting common sense. Her pain must be unbearable yet she's able to say that to him in front of the whole world? Incredible.

SylviaPoe · 19/08/2017 22:56

There probably are many women who are white supremacists and meet likeminded men.

But I know a fair few women whose husbands have got involved in extremism and that becomes part of the abuse. Not white supremacy, but men who've got massively involved in conspiracy theories, MRA etc, and white supremacy is related to those things.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 19/08/2017 22:58

I've seen similar comments on YouTube and other news sites blaming white women for electing Donald Trump because the majority of white women in the US voted for him but it's a stupid arsed argument because a much larger majority of white men voted for Trump.

WeldMeDaphne · 19/08/2017 22:59

I'll see if I can find a link to these open letters- the ones I have seen are on Facebook. and I realise an "open letter" has limited value.
I also take the point that it's not white men generally, but white supremacist men. Sorry for that.
Let me rummage for links...

OP posts:
OrgyofSausages · 19/08/2017 22:59

Scaryclown: I would urge you to reread your comment about Osama bin Laden and see it for the monumental stupidness that it is. Shock
Don't blame women for the way men are. Any of you.

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