Snubbed Disney Princes - what about the MENZ?

[Icantreachthepretzels]

There's a channel that I watch on Youtube called 'SuperCarlinbrothers' which is basically two young men talking about Disney/Pixar and Harry Potter. They're nice enough lads and they clearly love what they do and put a lot of effort into researching the videos.

I've just come across this one which is mostly a video about Disney men who haven't made the cut but in which J bemoans the fact that the Princes of Disney are backseat characters to the Princesses. He spends from about 0.30 -1.30 complaining that 2 of the Princes don't have names, only one is a lead in his own movie and that they are all only romantic interests who receive zero marketing and so are not providing decent role models for little boys.

Like I said, he's a nice boy, he isn't going MRA on this, but he does deliver this information without any sense of irony, or with any nod to the fact that what is true for Disney Princes is true for female leads in nearly every other film in the world

Down in the comments Thomas Everette writes 'Wow Disney are so sexist boys are taking a back seat'
Yes, Thomas, One film studio in all the world focuses mainly on girls - and that's where the sexism lies

So for anyone whose ever worried about Disney's influence on their daughters, fear not! It's your sons that Disney is actually harming - giving all those wonderful role models to the girls and neglecting the boys! How will they learn to look pretty and marry well if animated films don't show them the way?

Not a pressing or important issue, i'll grant you, but i thought you all might enjoy watching the out and proud cluelessness of men this afternoon. I like the SuperCarlinBrothers but I did watch this one with an increasing sense of incredulity

[TeiTetua]

Since their interests span Disney and Harry Potter, I assume they've often mentioned how few major female characters exist in the Potter stories.

[Icantreachthepretzels]

I think I've watched all their Harry Potter ones and - nope, I can't say its come up.

There was a video about whether or not Pixar was Sexist, but then, after a brief run down of the Bechdale test, didn't mention sexism at all. It was about diversity - representation of POC (no mention of lacking WOC) and LGBT people. Not to say those representations aren't important but they don't actually have anything to do with sexism.

[VestalVirgin]

The lack of awareness is stunning. Don't they see the irony?

So, not only feminism is now about being nice and inclusive to everyone (except lesbians, that is) but "sexism" also means "homophobia and racism and all things we don't like", now?

[Icantreachthepretzels]

In fairness to the brothers, they aren't aiming to explore these types of issue in the main - they're mostly interested in 'Is Draco Malfoy a Werewolf?' and 'Did Dumbledore make a Horcrux?'

The corresponding 5 snubbed Disney princesses is just that - Women who appear in Disney films but that haven't been included in the official Princess Franchise. That is essentially what the Prince video is about, but it amused me that it came with this completely oblivious monologue about how hard done to all Disney princes are.

In the 'is Pixar sexist' video J actually says he isn't the best person to answer this and so has a guest "expert" to help him out: a very young female vlogger who uses the words 'gender identity' more times than is strictly necessary and who does a truly terrible job of staying on topic.

If you want to know the true path of the elder wand then they really are good and very enjoyable.
It was just his Irony free, blissfully unaware digression into the poor representation of men in princess films, that tickled me.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I hope they are aware that even in the most female heavy Disney films, about 70% of the crowds are male, most of the non-singing dialogue is male and inner most of the money they make is made by men.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

qz.com/603052/new-research-has-uncovered-a-disturbing-trend-about-female-characters-in-disney-movies/

[MrsTerryPratchett]

No idea what inner was about.

[Icantreachthepretzels]

Thanks for the link about dialogue MrsTP that was really interesting.

It's not surprising though - if you think about Frozen, hailed as an uber feminist triumph, you have Anna and Elsa and then every other named character is a man - even the reindeer!

In the Little Mermaid, there's really only Ariel and Ursula that are anything but cameo roles and Ariel gives her voice up for half of the movie. Its a good job Ursula has a tendency to talk to herself, otherwise female dialogue would be even lower than the 32% that they do get.

It really makes the sad little little lament about the plight of the Disney Princes even more ridiculous!

[andintothefire]

Just a thought, but how rare is it for a comic character to be female? The ones that spring to mind are all in older films (e.g. the fairy godmothers in Sleeping Beauty).

Not a single female on this list for example: m.zimbio.com/Disney's+10+Funniest+Comic+Relief+Characters

It's a shame if there really is a lack of female "comic relief" characters - children should grow up thinking that women can be just as funny. And most of the Disney comic relief characters are interesting and often clever as well (e.g. The genie, Olaf, Timon)

[andintothefire]

Correction - actually one female on the list. Which rather proves the (obvious) point that there can be successful female comic characters so it is even less understandable why there are so few.

[Icantreachthepretzels]

Well to counterbalance the sad lament of romantic male leads not being allowing to live rich and full inner lives - here is an interesting video that focuses on how the MGM execs short changed .

In the books Dorothy's adventures are real - making her an intrepid explorer that kills witches and frees kingdoms, and she was invented before most Americans had flushing toilets. In the film she is reduced to a girl whose big adventure is just a bad dream she had and who decides to never leave home again.

They're not right in their analysis of why this happened (they claim its because they wanted to tell women to give up work after the war, but the film came out in 1939 - men may be evil but they're not clairvoyant) But it's still nice that someone noticed that Dorothy has had her heroism diminished.

(If there is war based propaganda in the film, I reckon it's more 'going to strange lands is bad, adventures are bad, there's no place like home, stay home, lets not join the European war.' )