What is MGTOW?

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

I was reading the comments under an Alain de Botton clip and I read this from men who sound like they hate women. A man who said ''all women have borderline personality disorder'' and who seemed to have missed the central point of alain de botton's podcast that we are drawn to a familiar dynamic more instinctively than we are drawn to a healthy one. Lucky us if it's the same. Anyway, is MGTOW (men going their own way) just celibate men slagging off women?

Wikipedia says it counsels men not to let their worth be defined by women. But that is more important for women imo, women are more vulnerable in society to requiring men's approval. How is it an issue for men?

Everybody male or female should have a sense of self=worth that is not reliant on how physically attractive they are to the opposite sex right.

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

Ps, Sorry for posting this. Not sure it's a feminist topic. Or if it is, it's no t news that there are bitter misogynists out there. Any man who holds this philosophy would be easily spotted. A divorced and bitter man who considers that his xw was ''hypergamous'' and then uses the repercussions of his dubiously motivated choice of partner as proof that all relationships with women are to be avoided has no idea what a relationship is!

[VestalVirgin]

To make it short, MGTOW is a bunch of liars.

They do not really want to live their lives separate from women. If they wanted to, they could just walk up Mount Athos, which as far as I am informed still bans even female animals, and become monks there.

They don't want to go their own way. If they really wanted, they'd do it, no one would hinder them. No one would miss them.

That's why they talk so endlessly about it. They hope that, one day, a woman will come and ask them to stay.

But that's not gonna happen, because we can do very well without a bunch of misogynist idiots.


Lesbian separatists have lived as far away from men as possible for a long time, and don't make a fuss about it on the internet - because they really don't want men to molest them in their communities.


Men have power, men have money, men could easily buy some private island and set up an atheist all-male community their if becoming a monk is not to their tastes.

But they don't. Because they need women. They cannot even do without porn that involves women. They really do not want to go their own way, they want to oppress and exploit women without having to treat even one woman in the whole world as actual human being.

If they ever leave the rest of the world, I bet they'll come back the moment porn is banned and they cannot watch women being raped on video anymore.
But they'll probably come back the moment they realize that the only people on their island who can cook their food and wash their dirty laundry and clean their houses are they themselves.

They are probably waiting for more household robots to be invented and for sexbots to be perfected before they'll even so much as move to an all-male village.

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

That's what I suspected! Thank you for your post VV. It's so true what you say about lesbians. They can genuinely go their own way and construct their social lives without men in them. Maybe sons and fathers and brothers but they don't seek to consciously exclude men and announce that manifesto style! And yet, they don't need men to notice them or approve of them or choose them or be attracted to them. So they're just relaxed about it all.

[Datun]

I wish they would bloody well go their own way. No one is stopping them.

They're just bitter and twisted because no one wants to shag them and it's their right.

And it's normal and natural for men to control women. It's nature, right? The fact that women are shagging other men perfectly happily is a source of constant rage to them. They just don't get that treating women like shit doesn't make them fall into their arms.

Like men whining that they're not accepted in feminism. No-one's stopping them doing feminism. Go and do it!

They don't mean accepted they mean centered.

[VestalVirgin]

I wish they would bloody well go their own way.

Me too, me too. If only they really did. If I was able to endure more bullshit, I'd go on a MGTOW forum and rally them to really DO it. (Probably wouldn't work, as they'd realize I am not a fellow man exactly because I am in favour of really leaving women alone)

But might be interesting to see what excuses they would find if a rich (secretly feminist) man donated his private island to the endeavour.

They're like those abusive men who threaten to leave their female partners so the woman will go along with whatever they want - they would never really leave, because they know that if they actually left, the woman would profit and they would lose.

Men are doing this on a societal level - marriage is patriarchal institution to secure a man ownership over his very own womb for breeding male heirs - but men pretend that it is women who want to get married, and it is oh, such a horrible fate for men to be married (nevermind that married men live longer than unmarried men, while for women it is exactly the other way round ...)

It would be great if a secretly feminist man could a) set up a MGTOW commune and b) rise to power within it.

Just imagine, he could ban any porn involving women, on the basis that it conditions men to need women! Prostitution would not exist, because the no women rule! Men would clean away their own dirt and cook their own food!

It would require a clever politician to convince them to make their own clothes instead of buying ones made by exploited women in Bangladesh, but perhaps, once they have lived there for a while, one could convince them there are girl cooties on clothes sewn by women ...

It would be a feminist utopia. Just without women.

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

It's all so true! I've been thinking recently that I will have to accept and build a good life with no men in it. Because even semi-attractive men don't want to shag me! Or at least not the ones with good personalities who'll commit, so it's not like women always get what they want. Women have to 'do without' as well. But they don't end up hating men. They watch videos of men being humiliated. They don't HATE all men because the best looking men won't date them! They just get on with life without a man in it. These men really feel so entitled to everythign they want at women's expense.

I love your idea VV, if only they actually meant what they said! It's funny, the irony, men who genuinely went their own way without women would have to clean their own toilets!

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

I mean, women dont watch videos of men being humiliated

[RedStripeIassie]

What the hell did I just google? What's wrong with these pricks?!

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

VestalVirgin, I know it would be an utterly depressing expedition but I'd love you to go on to one of those sites under the guise of being a bitter MGTOW-er and then put in your extreme ideas about how porn conditions men to think they need women when they don't. {popcorn} as they say. Mind you, I'm not brave enough to stomach the bile that would be typed on those sites so it's not fair to ask you to wade through the bile!

[VestalVirgin]

I couldn't stomach it either.

Perhaps we should persuade some feminist-leaning man to do it. Better that way, anyway, I have never been able to convincingly impersonate a man on the internet. (That is, they always notice I am different. Suspect me to be gay. With sufficient paranoia, might realize I am actually female. Not sure what MGTOWs think of gay men, they probably hate them, I mean, gay men actually manage to live without women without making a big fuss about it. MGTOWs are probably annoyed gay men make it look so effortless when it is sooo hard to just leave women alone that MGTOWs can never, never actually do so, despite talking a lot about how they desperately want to.)

Also google "political lesbianism", another idea invented by women who actually wanted to get the hell away from men.

I don't think any MGTOW has ever suggested men should make an effort to turn themselves gay in order to become independent of women when it comes to sex.
It would solve all their problems! Why don't they do it? (Because they want to oppress and exploit women, of course, but I have to say, I'd find it rather funny to ask them)

[M0stlyBowlingHedgehog]

Joining the chorus to say the trouble with MGTOW is they don't go far enough... like Rockall, or South Georgia. Or outer space.

[AskMeAQuestion]

People who have given up on women for companionship. Pretty damn obvious. It's in their "title".

[TinyRick]

"Men Going Their Own Way"

Hrmm...can't see anything obvious in that that they mean 'given up on women for companionship'

[AskMeAQuestion]

What else would it mean?

You can go into all these speculative efforts, but at the end of the day, that is what they are. That's what they're about. Who they are as human beings, individually, is irrelevant. They have an ideology, just like feminists do, and apparently they live by it. I find it to be a ridiculous and moronic ideology, but to sit here and claim, "these guys are like this, and that, and so forth" is just pointless.

[TinyRick]

To someone who has not read about the movement, MGTOW does not immediately say to them 'given up women for companionship'. It's not immediately obvious to those who have never read about it.

If they were Men Who Have Given Up On Women, then yeah, way more obvious.

[AskMeAQuestion]

Fair enough. I supposed anyone to ask the question would at least have a cursory knowledge of the subject.

[VestalVirgin]

People who have given up on women for companionship.

But not for economic exploitation and wanking to the rape of women they don't have to invest any emotional energy in. They still want to do that. (And probably rape prostituted women, too - not keen on reading any of their shit to find out, but it seems likely)

We here wish they'd take this "going their own way" a bit more literally.

[WannaBeDelgadaToFitInToMyPrada]

AskmeaQuestion well, that's what I thought to begin with... I thought to myself, I'm having zero luck finding a partner and Im thinking about how this will impact on my future, my old age, and I'm thinking constructively about how to make sure I'm not lonely. So at first I thought, there's a philosophy for this, let me look in to it, are they just thinking like I do. But then I read the comments and fell down a bit of a wormhole and I realised no, they haven't just shrugged and decided to get on with being single, they hate women.

They hate the beautiful ones for not choosing them and they hate the old and 'ugly' ones for daring to exist and take up space when they are no longer 'fuckable'.

Nobody is forcing anybody to marry, and if a man who is good company, healthy, attractive, charismatic announces that he won't marry he is not going to struggle to find a date, so these MGTOW must be lousy company, mentally unhinged, unattractive and bitter.

[Datun]

MGTOW must be lousy company, mentally unhinged, unattractive and bitter.

Indeed.

In other news, AskmeaQuestion, has had an entire thread, and several posts, deleted.

He may have been banned. Perhaps he should have checked MNHQ guidelines and what they do, and do not allow, before he posted.

After all, it's always best to at least have a cursory knowledge of the subject.

[VestalVirgin]

Datun, sometimes, I miss a laughing smilie on this forum.

[emilybrontescorset]

I too wish they would just do as they say and fuck off.

[FrogsLegs31]

To be honest I think the MGTOW movement is far more sinister and dangerous than even you guys are giving it credit for.

The base ideology is more along the lines of women being inherently deceitful and creatures of low intelligence.

They are not weak, unattractive men who can't get a shag just finding an excuse for it. They are often men that subscribe to ideas about the "superior male", that to give a woman your seed is to weaken yourself, that treating women as equals is at the root of all the problems in society.

Far from being neutral; they actively seek to harm women, deny women's freedom and use women for they own entertainment.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

"Far from being neutral; they actively seek to harm women, deny women's freedom and use women for they own entertainment." Tbh, how is this different to lots of other men who haven't actually signed up to this "own way" thing?

[FrogsLegs31]

it's different because they're happy as larry to be open about it and advertise themselves as such.

[VestalVirgin]

Tbh, how is this different to lots of other men who haven't actually signed up to this "own way" thing?

Yeah, this.

I view the MGTOW as having some potential - at least in theory, they might in fact fuck off and leave.

I just wonder how to achieve this.

Clearly, a strong leader is needed who can convince them that they are indeed harming women (which is what they so clearly, desperately want to do) by just leaving us the fuck alone.

Considering that males frequently bemoan that "oppression" of women not wanting them in our spaces, we should be able to convince them that we'd feel oh so very oppressed if they fucked off and left us alone. Theoretically.

Probably they'd realize they have been had after two weeks or so.

But perhaps if we could get them to travel to a foreign planet? Then they'd not be able to return so easily ...