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"Two British men become the first to give birth"

(62 Posts)
OlennasWimple Sun 09-Jul-17 13:47:11

Telegraph story here

Except, of course, they aren't men, they are transmen, one of whom conceived using donor sperm and the other following a heterosexual one night stand. <sigh>

I'm slightly gladdened, though, by the BTL comments which point out that it's not possible to change sex. Perhaps they are all noms de plume, but most seem to be from men (and men who would never call themselves radical feminists). I'm waiting to see whether there is an invasion of TRAs into that forum or whether they save themselves for easier targets

Chillyegg Sun 09-Jul-17 13:59:12

I find this interesting because by definition obviously a man can not give birth. So to transition and then want be pregnant and give birth, something only women can do is well a bit contradictory for want of a better word.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sun 09-Jul-17 14:18:51

I see there are complaints about deletions.

VestalVirgin Sun 09-Jul-17 14:38:56

I hate this kind of wrong use of language.

People are worried that children are taught creationism at schools, but how is this any better?

Men cannot give birth. That's in the very definition of "man".

I have to say, this is lots more stupid than creationism. Creationism was as useful an explanation as any other when we didn't have any idea about evolution, but genderism contradicts facts that anyone can clearly observe, without even having to apply scientific thought.

BrieAndChilli Sun 09-Jul-17 14:44:33

I was thinking the same, a 'Man' hasn't given birth, a woman who identifies as a man has. It's not the miracle of biology the headlines seem to suggest!
If I decided I was mermaid and so dressed like one everyday and was awaiting surgery to become a mermaid and gave birth, I would still be a woman giving birth not a mermaid giving birth!

I'm all for people being who they want to be, choosing to change gender but these people are still biologically women and wouldn't have been able to give birth if they weren't.

PlymouthMaid1 Sun 09-Jul-17 14:45:05

It is beyond ridiculous. I also wonder if they do it on purpose for money as presumably they get media interest in their, to us, non story.

WillRikersExtraNipple Sun 09-Jul-17 14:48:00

Just been reading this. "I'm the first man to give birth!"...what a load of horseshit. You had hetero sex using your vagina, got pregnant with your eggs, carried a baby in your uterus and pushed it out of your vagina, then fed it with your breasts.
On what fucking planet do you imagine you are a MAN?

Fuck me, just call me Wonko the Sane.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone Sun 09-Jul-17 14:51:38

Well obviously they are not men if they are giving birth, nobody can deny this. However what baffles me the most is how these 2 people can be so sure they are not women and they wish to be men (I have no problem with that) but they then get pregnant and have a baby which is probably the MOST womanly thing you could ever do?? Does anyone else not find that strange?

WhereYouLeftIt Sun 09-Jul-17 14:52:07

I wonder what was deleted? The comments are almost all 'they are not men' (barring the one comment by Michael Organ bleating 'how does this affect you'), so what could possibly have been deleteable?

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sun 09-Jul-17 15:02:43

Goodness knows. There are also complaints about sneak deletions. I see someone compared The Telegraph to The Guardian!

OlennasWimple Sun 09-Jul-17 15:04:31

I saw an earlier comment along the lines of "what a freak show!), which I expect would be deletable

Heads - yes, I find that aspect so difficult to understand. Pregnancy and childbirth (even with a C section) is one of the most female things that anyone can do with their body (PIV sex is up high on that list too)

OlennasWimple Sun 09-Jul-17 15:05:20

Lass - I actually LOLed at the suggestion that the Telegraph is actually a secret left wing publication grin

BetsyM00 Sun 09-Jul-17 16:28:35

In addition to the obvious fact that they are not men can I also complain about the title "two British men became the first..."? They can't both be the first!

rosy71 Sun 09-Jul-17 16:29:56

If I think about how I know I am a woman, it always comes down to biology. So I can't understand how you can think you are a man if you have used your female biology to have a child.

Boredboredboredboredbored Sun 09-Jul-17 16:53:00

Has the works fine utterly bonkers?!!! confused Unless I woke up this morning on planet gaga?

rookiemere Sun 09-Jul-17 16:55:46

How on earth can this be news ?

Woman gives birth to baby is hardly stop the press surely.

Boredboredboredboredbored Sun 09-Jul-17 16:55:52

*world gone damn you auto correct!

Hulder Sun 09-Jul-17 17:02:43

Surely if you 'feel like a man' but also want to give birth, you haven't understood the first thing about being a man confused?

TheMasterNotMargarita Sun 09-Jul-17 17:12:44

I'm so confused by all of this right now.
I don't care what you want to identify yourself as but how can you complain about others not identifying you correctly when evidently the lines are so blurred.
You want the right to identify as male.
You want the right to procreate using your female reproductive organs.
cake and eating it comes to mind.

VestalVirgin Sun 09-Jul-17 17:14:34

Surely if you 'feel like a man' but also want to give birth, you haven't understood the first thing about being a man

I have increasingly come to be convinced that transmen think that:

woman = an inferior being who deserves to be oppressed, and may even want to be oppressed.
man = superior person who deserves to get to oppress others.

Nothing about biology, they are fine with other women being oppressed, they just think they belong to the superior class. Biology has nothing to do with it, in their heads. (Of course as long as they have an uterus, they will be oppressed to that their reproductive capacity can be exploited by patriarchy, but they don't see that. I wonder when there'll be the first transman who wonders why "he" can't get an abortion in Ireland ... there already was the case of the transman who was surprised that a rapist would target "him" and explaining "his" gender identity didn't help.)

It is a bit like poor Americans who believe that they are, in their true, inner selves, millionaires, and their wealth will soon materialize, and they don't want to pay any taxes to support those inferior, bad cis poor when the day comes that they transition to millionaire.

Just even more delusional because poor people can become rich (though it is unlikely) but women cannot become men, and only a lucky few manage to pass so well that they can get male privilege when it comes to pay, etc.

GahBuggerit Sun 09-Jul-17 17:21:44

I was so amazed when I read the headline and wondered how the hell I'd managed to miss the other headlines regarding this path of natural evolution.

Then I saw the picture and realised it's just a normal everyday woman with a short haircut and ear stretchers. How disappointing and boringly normal. Must have been a slow news day.

noeffingidea Sun 09-Jul-17 17:46:07

vestal I thought FTM transition was closely associated with autism.
I do think it's about time the press and bodies such as the NHS stopped pandering to these kinds of delusions. By all means, address them by their chosen names and pronouns in order to be polite, but that's as far as it should go, IMO. There's absolutely no need for a paper such as the telegraph to pretend that men can become pregnant and give birth. It just makes them look ridiculous, on a oar with the old daily sport really.
Interesting to read the comments though. I don't think the general public is buying it. Similar to what I've noticed on youtube on trans related topics. Many people just aren't going alonng with the trans idealogy, and have no problem saying so.

WhereYouLeftIt Sun 09-Jul-17 18:47:43

TBH, the more such stories are carried in the press, the better. Because the natural reaction of most people wavers between 'WTF' and 'get a grip'.

Whilst we can (mostly) all sympathise with someone struggling with dysphoria, this woman clearly isn't; else she'd be too disgusted with the whole icky business of dealing with her female reproductive system to even consider pregnancy.

As for the autism link, there may also be a link to sexual assault link. I read a newspaper article regarding a gender clinic in Australia, where the psychiatrist reported teenaged girls saying stuff like ‘If only I had been a male I wouldn’t have been abused’. sad

MeanAger Sun 09-Jul-17 18:51:39

Actually they aren't the first transmen to give birth. They're maybe just the first that have gone public but I know for a fact they aren't the first. Obviously I cant and won't identify anyone.

VestalVirgin Sun 09-Jul-17 19:16:51

As for the autism link, there may also be a link to sexual assault link. I read a newspaper article regarding a gender clinic in Australia, where the psychiatrist reported teenaged girls saying stuff like ‘If only I had been a male I wouldn’t have been abused’

I do think it is a reaction to misogyny in (almost) all women. (Might be caused by a hormonal problem in some, but as long as we live in a patriarchy, how are we to know? We do know that there used to be more male transsexuals not so long ago)
But I have more compassion for girls who hate their female bodies (and experience dysphoria) after sexual assault than for women who just think it'd be nice to opt out of being subject to misogyny without having to do any work to fight it, and who don't even feel at all dysphoric.

Actually they aren't the first transmen to give birth.

Since the only thing "male" about them is a feeling in their head, that is pretty much certain. Lots of women have feelings in their heads and like "boy things", and dislike femininity, and quite some of those women give birth.

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