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Feminism and Religion

(58 Posts)
scottishdiem Fri 26-May-17 12:19:45

I was wondering what you all thought of this:

It really is time that women re-embraced the wearing of the veil, with the knowledge that it does not weaken us, rather it empowers by denoting our hallowed status as life-givers.

I have recently moved to Ireland and the dominance of the Catholic Church, although still very prevalent, is on the wane. I cant help think that this kind of think wants to put women back in a box. What do you think?

redannie118 Fri 26-May-17 12:24:09

Bloody hell that sounds like a statement from the Handmaids tale !! I was raised Irish Catholic and a very large part of me turning away from the religon was its attitude to women. Any religion that denies women the most basic human right of controlling how many children they have is not for me

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Fri 26-May-17 12:27:37

"A veil that highlights a woman’s revered role as a life-giver must be banished according to modern feminist philosophy because it does not fit into the agenda that dishonestly reduces the act of bearing a baby as merely ‘a choice’."

Bloody hell. Cover my head and open my legs? Yes, that sounds EXACTLY like The Handmaid's Tale.

ChocChocPorridge Fri 26-May-17 12:32:21

A hair-covering allows a woman a respite from thinking about failed efforts at grooming

I have not the words. Perhaps that's because I'm an empty headed woman who's always thinking of my hair /s

squirreltrap Fri 26-May-17 12:34:36

Religion has always been a way to legitimise subgigation of women.
Feminism and religion are difficult to align

squirreltrap Fri 26-May-17 12:35:25

Religion has always been a way to legitimise subgigation of women.
Feminism and religion are difficult to align

BigDeskBob Fri 26-May-17 12:50:31

The author has failed to understand that feminist are questioning why it's just women who wear a veil. Men are just as likely to have bad hair days and/or amazing hair as women. So that side of the argument makes no sense.

Only women get pregnant, that's true. But men have a role too, why don't they wear veils to show their fertility?

picklemepopcorn Fri 26-May-17 12:52:19

Feminism and some forms of religions are difficult to line up.

BigDeskBob Fri 26-May-17 12:54:18

Or, am I missing the point completely, and the veil represents the lack of choice women have regarding pregnancy?

hazeydays14 Fri 26-May-17 13:01:22

The author actually wonders why some feminists take issues with hair coverings

"Ahem- the hair-coverings that are veils honour the woman’s sacred significance as the one who bears children."

Because it reduces them to baby making machines in her opinion? And what of those women who can't have children, should they be unable to wear a veil because they don't have the ability to have children...

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Fri 26-May-17 13:09:48

Come to think of it, if there's one group of Catholic women who are definitely NOT meant to have babies it's nuns.

So how does that work?

PoochSmooch Fri 26-May-17 13:31:29

That is some mad, mad shit.

The bit that is missing for me from that article that it doesn't explain why god needs you to specifically cover your hair (surely an omnipotent being can see through cloth? Don't start me on why an all powerful being who would get so worked up about follicles could be a being that would be in any way something to worship...)

The piece goes on about women being sacred child bearers (blugh to that), but if the sacredness is in the child bearing, surely covering your tummy and your hoo-ha would square that off?? Where does your hair come into it?

From a quick bit of research, that ol' woman hater Thomas Aquinas weighs in with "the man existing under God should not have a covering over his to show he is immediately subject to God; but the woman should wear a covering to show that besides God she is naturally subject to another." Apparently it's from Corinthians (Paul was not big on women either, IIRC). Man is the glory of god and should therefore not be covered up, while woman is the glory of man and should therefore be covered up, because she's his possession and not for others to look at.

It's interesting that all of the Abrahamic religions do or did require women's heads to be covered. I am assuming that it is just garden variety misogyny - long hair in the regions that spawned the Abrahamic religions is associated with women (Paul makes reference to this as being the natural state of affairs - short hair on men, long hair on women), so it's viewed as a secondary sex characteristic. Because it's a secondary sex characteristic that belongs to women and therefore it's impure or unclean, it was written into the faith that women had to cover up.

I do wonder what mental contortions religious feminists have to put themselves through. It seems to require such a thorough cherry picking of the holy texts that I can't honestly see what the value is.

GuardianLions Fri 26-May-17 13:32:23

Only women get pregnant, that's true. But men have a role too, why don't they wear veils to show their fertility?
grin
That is brilliant!

Lancelottie Fri 26-May-17 13:36:38

Maybe they're just confused about which hairy bits make the babies.

No problem here with veiling the Other Bad Hair Day.

PoochSmooch Fri 26-May-17 13:36:47

the foul whisperings of feminists

This is totally my phrase of the day grin I love it too much. I'm doing it in all sorts of voices.

YetAnotherSpartacus Fri 26-May-17 13:38:54

A hair-covering allows a woman a respite from thinking about failed efforts at grooming

I don't bother to groom. I wash, let air dry, whack a comb through and walk out not giving a shit.

TheSparrowhawk Fri 26-May-17 14:41:36

'A veil that highlights a woman’s revered role as a life-giver must be banished according to modern feminist philosophy because it does not fit into the agenda that dishonestly reduces the act of bearing a baby as merely ‘a choice’'

This statement gave me the shivers. Catholicism treats women as breeding stock - they're not supposed to have a choice over having babies, they're supposed to submit to their husband and have babies no matter whether they are physically well enough to do so or can afford them etc. Of course if they do go ahead and choose to have babies outside of wedlock they're doomed forever.

I don't see how any woman can be a feminist and religious at the same time. As far as I can tell all religions utterly despise women.

ISaySteadyOn Fri 26-May-17 14:51:00

I agree. I think the majority of current popular religions lend themselves v easily to misogynistic interpretation.

Also, with headcoverings, I hate anything on my head. If I lived somewhere where I had to cover my head before I went out, I would just never go out. But I guess that might be exactly what the aim was.

DJBaggySmalls Fri 26-May-17 14:55:59

Thats not only a silly article, it ignores the instructions given in the Bible. Women dont cover their heads to show they are special or hallowed. Just the opposite.

''A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.''

1 Corinthians 11:4 onwards
biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-4.htm

BigDeskBob Fri 26-May-17 14:59:05

I'm not an expert by any means, but Sikhism teaches equality between the sexes. But, as with all religions, its how its interpreted that can be a problem.

TeiTetua Fri 26-May-17 15:29:31

Quakers have believed in equality for centuries, and it's built into their theology. They believe that there is "That of God" in everybody, and therefore, if one person sets themselves above someone else, that demeans the essence of God in the other person. It's also why they've always been pacifists.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Fri 26-May-17 18:36:19

a crying shame that since Vatican II, generations of women have fallen prey to the foul whisperings of feminists who argue that women who wear mantillas are making themselves inferior

The drive against wearing hair-coverings is in line with feminist thought which relegates a woman’s unique place as a mother to being second-best

Ffs I've never read a feminist text book in my life and even I know there is no school of feminist thought which supports either of those views.

Mermaidinthesea123 Mon 29-May-17 10:15:49

I don't cover anything, I'm a naturist. There is truly nothing less sexy than a weekend at a naturist club when everything is on show - I have never, ever felt attracted to anyone there.
Most of them are like me, overweight and past 50.
Covering up with all these veils and long clothing is a kind of perversion, it makes people, well men, wonder what's under there and it's all the more tantalising and erotic, fantasies about the forbidden - that's the catholic church all over really isn't it.
When it's all out on display nobody wants it.

MadameSzyszkoBohush Mon 29-May-17 10:26:03

I've never come across Catholic women wearing veils (sheltered and ignorant life). Is this why Melania and Ivanka wore veils/whatever it is they wore to meet Pope Francis?

VestalVirgin Mon 29-May-17 18:01:02

I'm not an expert by any means, but Sikhism teaches equality between the sexes. But, as with all religions, its how its interpreted that can be a problem.

Well, the Bible does quite literally declare women inferior to men. Not much to interpret about that, though many (Quakers, among others) manage to discard those bits from what they believe in. Still, it is there.

I've never come across Catholic women wearing veils (sheltered and ignorant life).

Nuns?

Hats and headscarves used to be a pretty normal thing for women to wear back when men still wore hats, but I don't think there was ever a taboo on showing head hair in everyday live in Europe, it just wouldn't have been practical.

We evolved milkwhite skin and blonde and red hair especially so we'd get enough vitamin D, putting on a veil would have been an idiocy that'd have been quickly corrected by evolution.
I think that's why it never became fashionable around here to veil the face or be anal about covering your head hair.

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