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Paris Lees Article in the Graun

(41 Posts)
YetAnotherSpartacus Tue 23-May-17 15:28:18

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/23/trans-women-vikki-thompson-mens-jail

... what is most interesting is that the comments seem to indicate that people are reaching Peak Trans ... many have been deleted though.

patodp Tue 23-May-17 16:16:04

"Transpeople wanted society to know about our existence"

Yeah we know some men prefer to wear dresses and makeup. We all know about your existence.

So.... when are you lot going to fight for trans only spaces, and transmen spaces in particular in prisons seeing as males are so violent?

It's like what came first the chicken or the egg. People who are trans have high rates of depression and attempted suicide and high rates of sexual violence and sexual crime, and high rates of addiction including masturbation / porn addiction. We are aware of this (hence female meaning female only spaces being of such concern).

Is being trans an expression of their mental illness or are they mentally ill because being of their treatment by society?

And why is it feminists job to sort it out?

patodp Tue 23-May-17 16:18:55

*because of

BigDeskBob Tue 23-May-17 16:22:24

"So why isn’t my phone ringing now?". Someone dies and Paris lees wonders why people are not demanding their opinion on the matter?

I might be of interest to Paris, but the BBC have been investigating deaths in prison this week. But they have, controversially, spoken to experts on the matter. shock

DJBaggySmalls Tue 23-May-17 17:07:41

Even moderate comments are being removed. I suggest people print screen shot when they post.

PencilsInSpace Tue 23-May-17 17:14:13

When I transitioned the NHS let me down, and I had to wait almost two years to receive the hormone treatments and physical interventions that would go on to make my life much easier. During that period I was depressed, suicidal and taking a great deal of drugs to cope. Like Vikki, I ended up going to prison.

... is not what she said to the BBC in 2013.

cuirderussie Tue 23-May-17 17:33:00

Guardian moderation is a fucking joke. Lees is a nasty individual though and I don't think he hides it well. Peak trans indeed.

TinselAngel Tue 23-May-17 19:10:17

When I read the article, I thought this is the beginning of responses in the main stream media from the Trans Rights Activists to increasing Trans scepticism. It shows maybe the parameters of the debate are starting to change?

Prawnofthepatriarchy Tue 23-May-17 19:34:22

I've just read all the comments, and the ones with highest scores are gender critical. It's really encouraging.

PencilsInSpace Tue 23-May-17 20:41:22

So why isn’t my phone ringing now?

Cos it's not about you Paris, or your agenda.

Suicides in custody are something we desperately need to tackle. It is shocking that so many people with poor MH are not in appropriate facilities with appropriate care which could massively reduce the death toll. From another article about Thompson:

Thompson is one of a long line of prisoners to take their own lives at HMP Leeds. Over the past five years there have been 14 self-inflicted deaths at the prison and a total of 33 since 1993, according to Minton Morrill Solicitors, who represented her family at the inquest.

During the 17-month period following her death, another five prisoners died there at their own hands.

Who knows their names? I don't and I bet Paris doesn't either.

PaintingByNumbers Tue 23-May-17 20:43:52

why isnt my phone ringing now??? so self obsessed

maybe because this particular person didnt want to be in a womens jail anyway?

Flugelpip Tue 23-May-17 20:46:25

My comment was moderated out of existence. I only said it was one person's very complex tragedy and it was exploitative to draw any conclusions from it that allowed Paris Lees to have another go at Jenni Murray. I was polite, and I was right.

ladyballs Tue 23-May-17 20:48:31

Paris Lees is a waste of skin.

ALittleBitOfButter Tue 23-May-17 22:00:47

I've skimmed the article and read the comments. So do i understand this right? Vikki didn't want to be in a women's jail but Paris Lees is hijacking her death to make this argument?

PaintingByNumbers Tue 23-May-17 22:08:45

yep

Ktown Tue 23-May-17 22:11:58

I asked what would people do in the case of a violent transwomen or male? Could they be in a women's prison?
I got deleted!
Poor vicki should have been supervised and perhaps I should have asked the question elsewhere. But don't open an article for comments if you don't want a healthy debate.

OlennasWimple Tue 23-May-17 22:28:59

Vikki's case is terribly sad all round, I believe.

The media is generally pretty quiet about deaths in custody - I reckon that Vikki's got more coverage than the average because she identified as a woman (but had not got a GRC, nor asked to be held in a male prison according to a number of accounts). So this really is Paris using a tragedy for her own self-promotion hmm

Meanwhile I think this article about how people are treated differently as men or as women is a far more interesting read

Terfing Tue 23-May-17 23:26:51

Yes, the highly-ranked comments are overwhelmingly gender critical! It looks like things may finally be turning round.

Out of interest, what was Thompson's crime? Does anyone know?

JigglyTuff Tue 23-May-17 23:33:00

Mugging a teenage girl and her mum: www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/11886167.Keighley_woman_accused_of_robbing_girl__15__of_mobile_phone/

LassWiTheDelicateAir Wed 24-May-17 01:06:33

I think she already had a 12 month suspended sentence for another offence so sent to jail for this one.

ALittleBitOfButter Wed 24-May-17 02:24:31

Does mugging include violence or is it just bagsnatching?

JigglyTuff Wed 24-May-17 06:14:44

Clearly there was no weapon but given Thompson took the teenage girl's phone and attempted to snatch the mum's, it sound like there was a bit of a tussle. I've had someone do that to me and it was horrible.

But I'm not trying to say they were horribly violent - just a really sad and messed up individual. Alcoholic mother, no dad, taken into care because of physical abuse at a few months' old - the reports make pretty grim reading.

Collidascope Wed 24-May-17 06:40:15

It does very much feel like Paris hasn't bothered to find out the true facts of the case and has just decided to run with the narrative that will whip up the most sympathy. I do feel sorry for Vicky actually, which is more than I do for other people who have committed suicide in jail whose names I don't even know. What does Paris actually want? It just felt like an angry rant rather than a genuine analysis of what happened and what should happen in future.

OlennasWimple Wed 24-May-17 11:34:20

Paris trying to whip up outraged support for her cause, rather than engage in analytical journalism? Surely not! shock

LassWiTheDelicateAir Wed 24-May-17 13:32:37

The problem Lees has is she has the writing style of a third rate Julie Burchill impersonator coupled with one USP.

In theory the one place where it should be almost impossible to commit suicide should be a prison. There are failings in the prison system as a whole although isn't it the case it is young offenders of both sexes who are most at risk?

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