Can someone please explain female MRAs?

[ShieldMaidenMamma]

How does this happen?

Met one recently and have felt a little sick since, worrying about it.

[ShieldMaidenMamma]

She calmly explained to me that "we need to make up for the many ways we're not quite compatible with men by looking for ways to fit better into their ideas"

[Collidascope]

Euch. I can only think that it's because she's absorbed the messages that society constantly gives us about women being 'other,' and men being the default. She's probably also got a lot of pats on the back from men by siding with them and deferring to them, as opposed to the hatred and rape threats feminists get. And maybe she's able to logically back it up by thinking of men's suicide rates, and evil ex wives who withhold custody of the children and run off with the money, yada yada.

[Collidascope]

Plus there are a lot of books like Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus which shore up the idea that the two sexes are very different but compliment each other, and feminism has of course ruined that lovely balance we once had by claiming men and women are the same, and women are the ones who have stepped out of their sphere so they need to be the ones to restore the balance.

[FlaviaAlbia]

I'd assume, rightly or wrongly that something has be happened in her life that makes this the 'safest' option for her.

Unless she's that religious zealot MP wannabe from Fermanagh who just seems to hate other women and not want them to have choices she didn't have...

[ShieldMaidenMamma]

It's certainly been 'safer' for me to be meek and obedient as a child so I can understand that. And the bit about how men will react differently to her makes a lot of sense too. It does get tiring being seen as an unreasonable bitch all the time just for wanting equity. Even so, the thought of just figuratively bending over so as to avoid being pushed... Makes me shiver. Where does it end.

[whoputthecatout]

Sounds like she has poor self esteem at the very least.

[DJBaggySmalls]

Theres a difference between camouflage and misogyny.

[ShieldMaidenMamma]

Just realised my autocorrect put 'equality' as 'equity'. Lol, even my tablet doesn't want me to have equality ;)

[BigDeskBob]

"She's probably also got a lot of pats on the back from men by siding with them and deferring to them, as opposed to the hatred and rape threats feminists get."

This.

[FlaviaAlbia]

Maybe it's similar to people who perpetuate rape myths. It's easier to believe that if you don't dress in a certain way and don't walk alone it won't happen to you when the actual likelihood is that it'll be someone you know.

[ShieldMaidenMamma]

ffs.. We could all be dressed as moomins by law and rape would still happen.

[M0stlyBowlingHedgehog]

As indeed is pretty much the case in parts of Syria under Islamic State control (well, burkhas rather than moomins, but you get the idea).

Did you try turning it round - asking her why if there was this massive and inherent difference in how men did things and how women did things (which in itself is debatable), why women should have to fit round men, rather than men adapting to fit round women, or (horror of horrors, a reasonable suggestion...) why both couldn't find a compromise that would suit everyone?

Agree with posters upthread, though - in a patriarchy, siding with the oppressor is a phenomenally successful survival strategy for ensuring you get a slightly less shitty end of the stick than that handed out to other women.

[Xenophile]

I often think that FemRAs are quite damaged people who are just trying to not be damaged any more so the lash out at other women on behalf of the men who they fear will harm them.

It's no excuse for their behaviour.

[GuardianLions]

Read Right Wing Women and the Politics of Domesticated Females by Andrea Dworkin.
She explains it all brilliantly.

[DJBaggySmalls]

The complete works of Andrea Dworkin, including Right Wing women, are now available to download as Epub books.

radfem.org/?s=Andrea+Dworkin

[SylviaPoe]

I don't understand Karen Straughan. She is very much against women getting residency of kids when they get divorced, and yet she is divorced and had residency of her three sons.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I don't understand Karen Straughan

I don't understand Karen Straughan. Superficially and initially she seems a good speaker but I end up thinking it's not that I agree or disagree but what she has just said but that I can't make head nor tail of how she got to her conclusion.

[GuardianLions]

Thanks for the link dj I just decided to have a read myself of RWW and it is so powerful... Dworkin''s answer (on the first page) to the OP is:

"She becomes a lackey, serving those who ruthlessly and effectively aggress against her and her kind. This singularly self-hating loyalty to those committed to her own destruction is the very essence of womanhood as men of all ideological persuasions define it."

[SylviaPoe]

Yes, I agree entirely Lass. It is very strange.

[GuardianLions]

When I was a teenager I had a boyfriend who was an extremely misogynistic arsehole, but was also very bright, which made his mind games and manipulation harder to get to identify.

I remember when I mentioned DV he said really patronisingly - like I was struggling to understand 1+1=2 "Didn't you know not all women are weak, women beat up men just as much, but men never speak up about it because they are too embarrassed, so no one thinks it happens"... he would say the same about rape - it all intuitively didn't add up, but the venom and the patronising tone shocked me so much and made me feel ashamed of the feminist views I had, I honestly started to believe that the 'downtrodden man' needed championing as a priority and that I was morally misguided for having 'overlooked' this previously. I was totally guilted and shamed into rejecting my own reality.

I had very confused beliefs and I think I must have come out with some contradictory crap. I even supported the idea of F4J because I didn't understand who they actually are.

It took me a while to realise that men who have the feminist-silencing-tactics (which I now see what it is) of my ex are just text book misogynists. I think a lot of these feMRAs are just victims of brainwashing like I was.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

She's probably also got a lot of pats on the back from men by siding with them and deferring to them, as opposed to the hatred and rape threats feminists get

Yep.

[Anniegetyourgun]

They're Gilead wives, looking down disdainfully on the handmaids. The irony in the story is that the handmaids have the one thing the wives really want.

[whoputthecatout]

Guardian I can't help thinking that "misogynistic" and "very bright" is an oxymoron.

[GuardianLions]

If only that were true cat. Unfortunately you find deep-rooted misogyny in all intelligence levels.
He was like a barrister in the way he performed his 'attack is the best form of defense' arguments. He was never overtly misogynistic and his ideas often seemed progressive or intriguing (I have since recognised that his positions were rooted in Nietzsche). He is very successful now.

[theshitcollector]

Not sure I'd call them MRA but I worked with several women who were in fairly senior positions who seemed determined to undermine any attempt at making things better for other women in the workplace (particularly those with children). Eg. Taking a much harder line than male bosses on time off for child-care emergencies, not wanting to agree to part time hours for women returning from maternity leave, speaking about maternity leave as if it was a holiday etc etc. One in particular frequently commented how she and her DP managed to look after DPs child without having time off for appointments, managed to work through weekends if required despite having a family etc etc. (It was years after listening to this that I became aware that DPs daughter actually lived with her mother and missed out on visits to her dad if he was busy)

They seemed to enjoy the reputation for being tough. I suspect they also got plenty of praise (and quite possibly career advancement) from male bosses for saying the things that they thought but didn't feel able to say. I always felt they tried to distance themselves from women in order to better fit in with the men at the top.