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Is there a red pill movie thread here?

(87 Posts)
brexitstolemyfuture Tue 16-May-17 21:10:18

I can't seem to find it

Childrenofthestones Tue 16-May-17 23:13:11

I started one a while back but nobody seemed interested,

brexitstolemyfuture Wed 17-May-17 07:22:34

I get the same impression, it's raised some really important iissues. Can't believe it's ignored

SweetGrapes Wed 17-May-17 09:42:06

What is it?

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 17-May-17 09:44:15

What important issues did it raise? I'm not sure my blood pressure could cope with watching it tbh, given the description of it on Wilipedia.

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 17-May-17 09:44:29

*wikipedia!

DJBaggySmalls Wed 17-May-17 09:56:08

Theres a biased piece of reporting on it;

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/the-red-pill-the-movie-about-men-that-feminists-didnt-want-you-t/

It glosses over all the problems with the Red Pill movement, such as the fact that they are behind the MRA/TRA movement which is attacking womens rights.

Girlywurly Wed 17-May-17 10:56:50

Hadn't heard of this. Looks really good. I'll definitely be watching it.

Datun Wed 17-May-17 11:17:02

AssassinatedBeauty

Same here. I'm feeling rather beleaguered by all the women hating going on at the moment.

I've avoided looking at the red pill stuff in case it tips me over the edge!

brexitstolemyfuture Wed 17-May-17 12:19:37

What exactly put you off from the Wikipedia article?

None of the mra in the film were attacking women's rights at all and why are you trying to tar them all with the same brush?

The film discusses numerous issues facing men and boys such as male suicide rates, workplace fatalities and high-risk jobs, false allegations of rape, military conscription, lack of services for male victims of domestic violence and rape, higher rates of violent victimization, issues concerning divorce and child custody, disparity in criminal sentencing, disproportionate funding and research on men's health issues, educational inequality, societal tolerance of misandry, and men's lack of reproductive rights.

brexitstolemyfuture Wed 17-May-17 12:19:48

What exactly put you off from the Wikipedia article?

None of the mra in the film were attacking women's rights at all and why are you trying to tar them all with the same brush?

The film discusses numerous issues facing men and boys such as male suicide rates, workplace fatalities and high-risk jobs, false allegations of rape, military conscription, lack of services for male victims of domestic violence and rape, higher rates of violent victimization, issues concerning divorce and child custody, disparity in criminal sentencing, disproportionate funding and research on men's health issues, educational inequality, societal tolerance of misandry, and men's lack of reproductive rights.

ChadSexington Wed 17-May-17 12:24:16

I expected to hate it and actually found it really interesting. Didn't agree with all of it by any means (particularly the family court/divorce/custody issues) but thought it raised some pertinent points. The different media responses to the Nigerian schoolgirls abduction contrasted with the numerous killings of teenage boys in the region for one.

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 17-May-17 12:26:01

What do you think I'm tarring them with?

Tbh, I have issues with the idea that false allegations of rape are an issue that needs addressing more than false allegations of other kinds of crimes. I don't think that you can seriously argue that there is disproportionate funding and research into men's health issues, that there is such a thing as misandry and that men lack reproductive rights.

I'd have to watch it with a pen & paper handy to make a note of everything that I find problematic, and that just doesn't sound like something I can bring myself to do. Maybe someone else has already watched it and analysed what's being suggested in it, for any factual basis. Also, is it US focussed or about the UK?

SylviaPoe Wed 17-May-17 12:52:18

OP, if this film is almost entirely about men's rights issues, why are you looking for a thread on it on the feminist board?

Xenophile Wed 17-May-17 13:11:50

It's US based.

Was funded by a kickstarter which was heavily promoted by Breitbart and the odious MiloY, most of the people who donated were MREs/Redpillers/manosphere dudes. The film basically serves to blame feminism for every problem men have.

I'll take each of the heavy charges laid at feminism's door and try to answer them.

male suicide rates

This is an enormous issue, especially in the US where there is easy access to ways of committing suicide that aren't available elsewhere to the same extent. The reasons why people commit suicide are difficult to describe in a short paragraph, but for men, the added belief that "big boys don't cry" which is part of a truly toxic type of masculinity that also makes men more violent than women. I'm very interested to know what services the manosphere has set up to help prevent male suicide, do you have any of that information? Because generally, when the manosphere does on this issue is to get justifiably upset about it and then try and imply that women need to sort it out for them.

workplace fatalities and high-risk jobs

To take high-risk jobs first... yes, men do do a great deal of high risk jobs that women don't do, and there are a few reasons why that might be. The one the manosphere has settled on is that women simply don't want to do these jobs because men are disposable, which doesn't really bear a lot of scrutiny, given that patently men aren't disposable at all any more than women are. What seems to be a far more likely reason, and one that is borne out by the facts is that men choose to do these high risk jobs because the pay is so high and women tend not to because once you have a role that pays well, it tends to become the preserve of men and a closed shop. There are also many jobs that women have been barred from doing by overwhelmingly male governments, partly because they didn't believe that women were physically capable of doing them and partly because well paid jobs are generally reserved for men.

When men choose to take a high risk job, then they also recognise that one of the risks of that job is workplace fatalities, it's why they are paid so well. Much of the manosphere is fairly rabidly right wing and therefore anti-unions, unionisation is the best way of ensuring workers rights and safety. Instead of blaming feminism for these undoubted ills, it might serve them better to union up and fight for better safety at work.

false allegations of rape

Assassinated has already covered this.

military conscription

The easiest thing for men to do would be to fight the draft. It hasn't been used for years, conscription isn't a thing any more and it seems outdated and ridiculous. Again, because much of the manosphere is very right wing, this probably won't be something that's occurred to them. It's not women or feminists who are making men sign the draft, it's the government, so it's up to men to lobby their representatives to get this sorted.

lack of services for male victims of domestic violence and rape

I'd agree there is a lack of services, but again I'd ask what men are doing to change this? The start of the refuge movement was women taking other women into their homes, men are completely free to do that same, so the question is: why haven't they? Why do women need to be sorting this out for them as well?

higher rates of violent victimization

Who are the perpetrators?

issues concerning divorce and child custody

Things are slightly different in the USA, but in the UK the courts go from a base of 50/50 residence, if the father has been involved in his children's lives up until the split, he will have equal involvement afterwards for the most part. For whatever reason the manosphere seems to think that children are commodities and that is an enormous shame.

disparity in criminal sentencing

I can see this. In the UK women are sent to prison far more often for non violent offences than men and tend to receive longer sentences when they do commit violent crimes.

disproportionate funding and research on men's health issues

This is simply not true. However, if the manosphere believes it is, I'm sure they've done all kinds of fundraising, awareness drives and lobbying of their representatives to get it changed like women had to do for breast cancer. I was involved in one initiative in the UK, but it seems to have fizzled out a bit now.

educational inequality

Do you mean the fact that there are more educational programs aimed at getting boys to engage with school than for girls? Or that more girls graduate college than boys, but still get paid less than male college grads after a really short time?

societal tolerance of misandry

There's no such thing.

and men's lack of reproductive rights.

Men have the same reproductive rights as women right up until they impregnate them. This isn't feminism, it's nature.

Collidascope Wed 17-May-17 13:36:28

Thanks for having that patience to type that out, Xenophile. Good response.

If people are interested in men's issues docs, The Mask You Live In (Netflix) is very good and lays the charges in the right place, iirc. It's written and directed by the Jennifer Newsom who also did Miss Representation which is also good.

coleridge Wed 17-May-17 13:39:29

brexitstolemyfuture
I'm not against the film on principle or anything like that, but it features the odious Paul Elam on his best behaviour, trying to make it out like he's extremely supportive of both men and women and has never said a word against women. Plenty of things he's said and written are out there to refute this argument, my personal favourite (?) being the following:

'When one of his daughters [to be clear this part is not referring to Elam, but a different man] came home one night and said she’d been raped, he said, "Are you fucking kidding me?" Sitting with us, he hikes his voice up to a falsetto in imitation: " ’Oh, I just got raped.’ " He laughs. There’s a moment of silence. A bridge too far? "I told her if she pressed charges, I’d disown her."
Elam, whose attention has drifted, grins through his beard. "That’s good fathering," he says.'

Abhorrent.

[quote from www.gq.com/story/mens-rights-activism-the-red-pill]

SylviaPoe Wed 17-May-17 13:41:16

American workplaces have high fatality rates (nine times UK rate) due to the following reasons:

1. Homicide rates. You are likely to be murdered at work in the US as to die from any cause at work in the UK. The high risk in this instance is working with predominantly male colleagues or with predominantly male members of the public, as overwhelmingly violent crime is committed by males.

2. Car accidents. US workplace fatality stats for work include car accidents for people who don't drive a vehicle as their job! Male drivers are far more likely to be involved in a car accident than female ones, whether driving to work or not. I am not sure how we can get men to drive more safely.

3. Lack of unions and health and safety regulations. In the absence of these (far less of a culture around these in US) male culture encourages risk taking. There were large drops in deaths among fire fighters when they were forced to wear seat belts when travelling.

The vast majority of workplace fatalities and accidents are entirely preventable. Much of the risk is about behaviour not the actual work involved - look at the very high risks of injury nurses have from lifting, so they've insisted upon through unions, and abided by regulations around this.

And despite all of this, getting pregnant in the US is still over four times more dangerous than going to work in the US.

Xenophile Wed 17-May-17 14:38:20

I'd forgotten that Paul "all women lie about rape all the time" Elam was in it. Such a joy.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer Wed 17-May-17 14:51:24

OP, if this film is almost entirely about men's rights issues, why are you looking for a thread on it on the feminist board?

This

Datun Wed 17-May-17 15:26:17

Xenophile

workplace fatalities and high-risk jobs

And lets not forget the highest job risk of all. Prostitution. Where women in the US are 400 times more likely to die than the average worker.

And while we're at it, let's not forget who benefits from prostitution.

And who is responsible for the deaths.

Xenophile Wed 17-May-17 15:29:50

Datun

Absolutely agree. I was just trying to keep it nice and simple

Datun Wed 17-May-17 15:38:06

I know. And thanks Xenophile. You expressed it brilliantly.

It's just the one that pisses me off more than all the others. There is simply nothing comparable.

That and the hundred million female foetuses killed for no reason whatsoever, other than not being male.

Xenophile Wed 17-May-17 15:48:43

I was really shocked when I found out that for the first time in recorded history (and almost certainly the rest of human history) there are more men than women. Femicide is taking it's toll on world demographics and it's a pretty terrifying thought.

Datun Wed 17-May-17 15:52:19

Xenophile

And it's affecting economics in China. Because there are so few women to go round, men are saving all their money so they have more to offer a potential partner.

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