"Stealthing" Men removing condoms without consent.

[HelenaDove]

By Sali Hughes for The Pool.

www.the-pool.com/news-views/opinion/2017/19/sali-hughes-on-stealthing-and-the-rise-of-online-forums

[Xenophile]

Thanks for sharing.

As far as I'm concerned this is rape. It might not be legally defined as such, but it is still a penetrative sex act with a penis without consent or reasonable belief in consent.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Does it count as an assault? For comparison, if these men deliberately threw their semen onto someone in the street, would that be an assault?

[Xenophile]

I don't know, I suspect it could do, but can you imagine the front desk officer's face? The disbelief is bad enough when you go in with a friend because they've been raped, but I highly doubt they'd take this seriously unless enough people reported it and even then, they'd somehow make it women's fault.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

I can imagine. It would probably be framed as a misunderstanding or unfortunate miscommunication.

[Xenophile]

Well, given that rape is framed like that often enough...

Men who do this are fucking grim.

[c3pu]

There was a thread on this in 30 days only the other day.

I don't know anyone who's had this happen to them, but I do know a man whose wife stopped taking the pill without telling him and is now having a baby.

Wonder if it would be treated as the same thing?

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Sadly too true :-(

It's pathetic as well, the need to dominate and control, and this is one of the ways that these men can do that.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

I wondered whether that comparison would come up, as it's mentioned in the article. Clearly that's also a bad thing to do, but it doesn't have the aspect of exposing the victim to disease. And as the article says, is there a whole subculture growing up around this and is it as widespread?

[Xenophile]

Well, I don't know c3pu. Does taking the pill prevent the spread of STIs? Does the morning after pill cause enormous health problems in men? Does pregnancy? If not, then no, they aren't really comparable.

That's not to say that stopping taking your birth control without telling your husband isn't a shitty thing to do, but as you're taking all the risks on yourself, it's not the same thing at all.

[geekaMaxima]

Well said, Xeno.

[c3pu]

Is it as widespread? I guess we'll never know, it's arguably even more difficult for a man to find that a female partner purposefully neglected to use a non barrier method of contraception, than it is for a woman to find out that a man has "stealthed" her and she now has semen in her vagina.

[VestalVirgin]

It is rape, plain and simple.
Police should arrest men who brag about this online. If they're unsure, they can always have an undercover policeman message the guys and ask them for advice on how to do it.
If advice is given, then that's helping someone to commit a crime, and surely, that's proof enough?

[Xenophile]

I'm not sure I understand you c3pu, are you trying to justify this assault on a woman because someone you know says their wife stopped taking the pill without telling them? And it's ok, because a woman will know that a man has done this to them because of the semen she later discovers and a man might never know? That's pretty fucked up, don't you think?

[c3pu]

Xenophile

Of course it's not exactly the same thing, that much is obvious. But in my mind the issue is one of consent. If a man consents to have sex with a woman on the condition that she is using contraception, then she withdraws it the consent becomes invalid. The consent becoming invalid is the same regardless.

[VestalVirgin]

I would suggest that women stop having casual sex. Like, just stop it, completely, until this is acknowledged to be rape by judges and police, and if necessary, the law. (Though I would assume it is covered. If you consented to sex without a condom, you did not consent to sex without a condom, plain and simple.)

But this kind of strike never works. Lysistrata was a comedy on how women would never ever do this, so ...

[AssassinatedBeauty]

c3pu I don't think it's relevant to this discussion. What do you think about "stealthing"?

[OlennasWimple]

And lo, a derail is upon us as we talk about something shitty that men can do to women

[NoLoveofMine]

And of course a widespread issue of women and girls being subjected to this by abusive men is sidetracked to attempt to force discussion on women supposedly doing something apparently similar. The usual derailing tactics of someone who doesn't want to condemn misogynist abuse.

[c3pu]

c3pu I don't think it's relevant to this discussion. What do you think about "stealthing"?

Same as any sane thinking person I should hope - having sex with someone without their consent is totally abhorrent.

[VestalVirgin]

c3pu: The risk a man faces when having PIV with a woman he doesn't want a child with is purely financial. And if he's putting the whole responsibility on his partner, he's willingly taking a higher risk of pregnancy, as he could use condoms additionally.

A woman, on the other hand, cannot do anything to prevent infection other than using condoms, and puts her own health at risk by getting hormonal contraception AND by not getting it and instead trusting a man to use a condom.

It is not remotely the same.

And THEN there's the fact that men do this because they are sadistic rapists, whereas women secretly quit hormonal contraception because they are desperate for a baby. I have never read a woman bragging about making a man ejaculate inside her while "stealthily" not taking the pill.

[HerOtherHalf]

It's disgusting and morally i would say it is comparable to rape. There might be a problem translating it into a legally definable offense that stands a chance of being successfully prosecuted though.

[c3pu]

VestalVirgin
I'd thoroughly disagree that becoming a father is merely 18 or so years worth of child support!

I agree that the implications of infection are totally different though. Clearly the risk of exposing someone to disease would be an aggravating factor.

I suppose the difference between the motives is a matter of opinion. To be honest I find each scenario to be equally horrific.

As for never hearing of a woman bragging about tricking a man into getting her pregnant - I've heard it twice, although I'd only call the second one bragging.

[HerOtherHalf]

Ffs c3pu, wind your neck in. Why the need to turn the discussion into a genderised game of cuntish top trumps?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

I find the idea of deliberately exposing an unsuspecting woman to the possibility of STDs and the risk of pregnancy (and either having to take medication such as the morning after pill, or have an abortion or go through with a pregnancy) to be more horrific than lying to a partner about taking birth control. It is by a large degree a more aggressive and worse violation.

[NoLoveofMine]

As for never hearing of a woman bragging about tricking a man into getting her pregnant - I've heard it twice, although I'd only call the second one bragging.

Hardly comparable to whole forums devoted to men laughing about it and encouraging one another with tips on how to do this to women, as well as a term for it making light of it and glorifying it.