Okay men, strip clubs & stay dos(119 Posts)
Okay not sure this is the right place to write this.. But something has really griped me lately..
Why do men use stag dos & boys being boys as an excuse to go to a strip club or have a lap dance.
If under any other circumstances having a naked woman rubbing up against you and getting off on it is cheating. Why would being on your stag do be any different?
People don't seem to understand my morals on this!
I'm a bloke and I think this is grim. And yes, I think it counts as cheating.
That meant stag* not sure how to edit
Oh and I know not all men do this.. But for those that do
I feel exactly the same as you and I'm consistently baffled by people not seeing my point of view. It seems odd to me that I appear to be in the minority. That said, there's a significant number of women I know who say they don't care and actually they do, whether to save face or to appear to be relaxed, I don't know.
My DP is well aware there's no way I would accept that behaviour from him. He doesn't see it as a great loss luckily.
It is that 'tradition' of the 'final fling'. I think some men even use prostitutes or are goaded to.
It is obviously cheating to have a lap-dance/use a prostitute and I would even say ogling at a naked woman or wanking over porn. But some people, like swingers, aren't that bothered about 'cheating' as long as there are certain parameters agreed by both.
If the couple aren't swingers/polyamorous/open relationship types and the 'hen' doesn't grind against a Chippendale on her do, then there is obviously sexism at play.
I've never been to a strip club, and I've avoided any stag dos that have included them. Nothing to do with my relationship status though. They sound like deeply depressing places.
But in this day and age we're all supposed to be so open minded and liberal when it comes to sex and erotica we're in danger of our brains falling out.
I think men have spent a long time propagating a myth about their sex drives, about how insatiable they are, about how it's harder for them to be faithful than it is for women (backed up with a load of evolutionary bunkum), and about how they crave different women, and it isn't fair to expect them to limit all that wonderful sperm and lust for one woman. I think men themselves now believe it and a fair few women have fallen for it too -you hear something enough times and you start to believe it or at least it doesn't sound as daft as the first time you heard it -and so concessions are made.
As a society, we accept that at certain times (stag dos etc.), men ‘need’ to be allowed to unleash their 'inner caveman' as a brief respite from the pressures of behaving like a rational, respectful human being most of the time. We kid ourselves that men having a lap dance is just a transaction, and the fact that one party is being paid to present herself in a sexual way certainly does make it less likely to develop into the love affair of the century -which is possibly why some women are less threatened it. Also, those who are in control of the sex industry have spent a lot of time throwing mud at people who object to it -anyone who isn’t cool with strip clubs is a prude, women should be able to choose to empower themselves by making money from men using their sexuality, etc. So a lot of women will try to show that they’re cool with their partner getting a lap dance because they don’t want to seem like possessive, hysterical puritans. And men will do it because they can.
Yes exactly and sorry to be blunt...
But it's a load of bullshit! Keep your dick in your pants..
Also if they want to use the, men are there to inseminate multiple women crap because it's in their nature bollocks then my backfired response would be...
So why can other male animals stick with one partner for there entire lives? E.g. Penguins
Really sick of hearing excuses for men to objective and use women as a sexual object.
I'll absolutely say I'm not okay with it.. Because I'm not stupid enough to let someone walk all over me like that.
When I heard of a strip club called the gentleman's club I almost spat my coffee all over..
Collidascope What a brilliant, well thought-out post.
collida I'd live to copy & paste that to Facebook.. But I can imagine the abuse I would get..
I think that's why I felt safe posting here
Eurgh, totally agree OP. I hate the thought of what happens on stag do's, I try not to think too much into it though or my inner psychopath comes out
I think you may be making the mistake of assuming a majority of men do these things. We don't.
I spent many years in the army, been on countless rugby and cricket tours and from my view point have not seen this as widespread behaviour.
Now I'm not saying that spend much time discussing Plato or the Tempest. But we don't make a beeline for the local red light district!
That's really odd Figaro, because the years I spent with the army were the ones where most of my friends/neighbours/co-workers had made a beeline for the red light district. In fact, in some parts of the world, brothels are specifically run for military types.
Great post Collida. The interesting thing that people who espouse evolutionary reasons why men need to spread their seed around because we're animals, the same as any other, also forget that in the vast majority of the animal kingdom, there are relatively few male animals about and other than one - three adult males, males are shunned by the social group once they are grown up enough to fend for themselves because of the risk of violence from superfluous males.
figaro I did state not all men..
It became topic of recent conversation..
It also seems it is regularly made into films..
It's being made normal, it's not normal.
I went to a social event when late teenage and a stripper came on stage who I was unaware of. The dynamic from the male audience was 'we've "bought" you, now dance.'. It was a startling experience for a good 17yo Catholic boy. The woman was a commodity and offered herself for sale and had been bought by a group. I even wondered how much actual sexual excitment was happening for the audience.
Never been to anything like it since. All sounds grim and depressing as has been said. But then I've never been on a 'stag do' where this would happen.
Agree with collidascope. Also, I believe that there's an element of male bonding in these things, so men who wouldn't think of going alone are happy to go with their mates. Of course, that then begs the question of why it is a bonding experience to objectify women...I'm sure we could write pages about that
Likewise, Xeno, my husband is also a veteran of rugby tours, and he says it does often happen. Not all the time, and not involving all the men, but it's not uncommon. It's not something he's interested in but he's not one to crack under peer pressure, so he takes off with other likeminded souls to do other stuff (though I'm sure someone will be along at some point to tell me he's lying and I'm deluded).
I'm with you. If I come home from work to find my husband sitting on our sofa while a woman he picked up in a bar grinds against him completely naked and jiggles her tits in his face, I will of course throw him out and divorce him because he has been unfaithful.
If, on the other hand, he goes out with his friends and pays the woman to do this in a strip club, I should roll my eyes and be the cool wife because 'boys will be boys'.
As far as I can see, the only difference is that in the second scenario he's cheating and wasting family money in the process so it's actually bloody worse.
If my DP does this for his stag do I wouldn't marry him (assuming I found out).
Purely because if he's the sort of guy who does this then he's not the man I think he is, nor the man I love.
It's vile IMO.
I also hate how on so many shows they make the strippers all 'want' to do this job, all doing it to make 'easy' money to support themselves to become a doctor or similar. Not saying some people don't (I have no idea really), but I'm not convinced that's the case. At the end of the day if your only way to make ends meet is to take your clothes off to be oogled at then something seriously wrong with the system.
For me it has been the same xenophile - where the men I have spoken to have been most open about using prostitutes, they have been in the armed forces. Most of the other men I know have been to strip clubs either on business, groomed by a brother or friend who is really into it - so they didn’t choose to go as such, or they have been to stag dos where they go to red light districts and bottle out of/don't want lapdances or to use prostitutes, although there might be one or more of the party that crosses that line.
I have known men who actively take a strong stance against going to these places, but they stand out as unusual.
Figaro although you say you and your friends don't make a beeline for these places - but have you ever 'ended up' there?
Mother "it's being made normal, it's not normal"
Absolutely spot on.
Of course it's widespread! There wouldn't even BE stripclubs if there wasn't a steady stream of punters.
To further Collidascopes excellent post, I am inclined to argue we are just as repressed sexually as we always were. Now bear with me here as it runs counter intuitive to the dominant sexually permissive narrative. Sex is great, it's pleasurable, it's relaxing and it bonds us. However modern sexuality is journey we're actually railroaded to walk alone.
Individual sexual fantasies are built solo to be indulged by a partner, rather than as journeys taken together with destinations shared. Our whole language is filled of things being done to people and not with them.
Casual encounters have entire staid and routine patterns. It always involves PIV as if that is the only conduit through which male and females can reach one another.
Yet if one doesn't buy into this vision that's prudish? Well I'd argue anyone that advances that is not only deeply sexually repressed themselves, but seek to repress any and all competing paradigm of human sexuality. If that isn't pure unvarnished repression I don't know what is.
Now let's take strip clubs a woman who can dance is sexy, so are men who can too, and whilst we have male strippers we haven't built anywhere near as many temples to the erasure of preferences of men as we have for women. As that what money does it erases the significance of preference. Sure the odd female stripper may enjoy doing it, but the whole enterprise is not contingent on her enjoyment. In fact we don't even really care anymore.
Our preferences ancor each other to one another. When we let money dissolve that ancor female sexuality gets a double dose of repression, and male sexuality spirals off in chaotic and destructive directions.
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