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"Common Threads And Narratives of Transgender Children And What This. Means For Our Lesbian And Gay Populations’

(17 Posts)
mirandayardley Sat 06-May-17 23:42:58

‘Common Threads And Narratives of Transgender Children And What This. Means For Our Lesbian And Gay Populations’: my latest blog post which is on ‘transkids’. It contains some original research and examines how cultural stereotypes are being used to justify transing kids.

http://mirandayardley.com/en/common-threads-and-narratives-of-transgender-children-and-what-this-means-for-our-lesbian-and-gay-populations/

mirandayardley Sat 06-May-17 23:45:58

Helps if I make the URL work.

[http://mirandayardley.com/en/common-threads-and-narratives-of-transgender-children-and-what-this-means-for-our-lesbian-and-gay-populations/ "Common Threads And Narratives of Transgender Children And What This. Means For Our Lesbian And Gay Populations’]

Datun Sun 07-May-17 00:19:36

Hi Miranda

Thanks for the article and the references. Could you clarify your thinking on something for me?

From what I understand, many trans people say their preference for socially constructed choices, i.e. pink, blue, etc, isn't from intrinsic partiality to that particular item/colour, but from a learnt association of that item with either femininity or masculinity.

So it makes perfect sense to express a preference based on what they see as the consensus.

It's consistent with both the gender preference being socially constructed, but also an innate need to identify with that construction. i.e. the fact that these preferences change over time and culture does not appear to be inconsistent with the assertion that gender identity is innate. The colour/toy preferences being merely an expression of the innate persona.

I'm not sure I've expressed that as effectively as it sounded in my head!

winteriseverywhere Sun 07-May-17 00:19:38

This is a brilliant article - thanks so much Miranda! I'm aware of all of the issues but having it laid out in black and white just how common the "she always liked pink" thing is is really useful. And having the colour history laid out is also useful.

I'm always baffled about the significance given to pink. I hated it (I'm female) and while most of my little friends didn't feel as strongly about it as I did, they weren't massively into it either. It does seem to be pushed on little girls today and when boys respond by wanting some of the pink action this is being interpreted as "whoa, wrong body - get him on meds!" rather than "little boy just likes pink. So what". I will no doubt use this article at some point, thanks again!

OlennasWimple Sun 07-May-17 01:07:55

Thank you for sharing this, Miranda. I've made a clicky link to it here (you need double [ ] s smile)

I don't fully understand how quickly the T has come to dominate in LGBT organisations, and why the L in particular aren't more vocal about the sort of issues that you outline in your piece.

It's very interesting that so many more girls are coming through the doors of the Tavistock Clinic, considering that lesbians tend to come out much later than gay men. But in any case, the children covered by your article are younger than the average age that people report first thinking / knowing / coming out as gay and lesbian. I find that particularly compelling: I wonder if it's easier for a confused child to think "I must be a boy if I really like my best friend" than "I must be gay if I really like my best friend".

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog Sun 07-May-17 09:54:02

Thanks Miranda - a fascinating article, and one I shall go away and think about (and great to "see" you around again).

mirandayardley Sun 07-May-17 17:35:05

^hanks for the article and the references. Could you clarify your thinking on something for me?

From what I understand, many trans people say their preference for socially constructed choices, i.e. pink, blue, etc, isn't from intrinsic partiality to that particular item/colour, but from a learnt association of that item with either femininity or masculinity.

So it makes perfect sense to express a preference based on what they see as the consensus.

It's consistent with both the gender preference being socially constructed, but also an innate need to identify with that construction. i.e. the fact that these preferences change over time and culture does not appear to be inconsistent with the assertion that gender identity is innate. The colour/toy preferences being merely an expression of the innate persona.

I'm not sure I've expressed that as effectively as it sounded in my head!^

Thanks for the question Datun. I may have misunderstood what you are saying so please forgive me if I'm wrong.

I'm thinking if attachment to cultural behaviour and artefacts is based on an association with a particular type of behaviour, e.g. Masculinity or feminity, so people are, dependent on innate personal preferences, attracted to things that we see as culturally masculine or feminine, then it supports what I'm trying to say, which is in essence personality is being used as evidence for a child's mind/body being incongruent. Anyone can like things culturally coded as feminine, and likewise masculine, and we'd be better off allowing people of all sexes access to these.

Or have I misunderstood?

Thanks!

Datun Sun 07-May-17 17:55:03

mirandayardley

No, you haven't misunderstood at all!

I got involved in a long argument with someone about it. And I struggled to articulate the fact that gender is an imposed role, with their particular line of reasoning.

Their argument was how else do you expect us to attach to our innate sense of being female?

Which only works if you agree that there is such an innate sense. Which I don't, but it was one of those arguments where the words 'innate sense' weren't actually used.

So I was trying to argue with a piece of diaphanous rhetoric.

Sometimes I find the deliberate overcomplication an annoyingly effective tactic, as words seem to lose all meaning and become fluid.

So, thanks for your reply and clarification.

Henceforth, I have resolved to stick to the basics and commonsense counterargument of don't be ridiculous.

Much more satisfying.

GoldStars3 Sun 07-May-17 18:07:08

Hi Miranda, thanks for linking that, it was an interesting read.

Just one thing that confused me, it might be a typo. At the point where you switch to talking about the narratives around girls who transition to transboys/men, you writr: "It is interesting that the stories about transgender males are generally fewer and the age of the subject is usually old enough for them to be able to indicate their sexual orientation."

Do you mean to write "transgender females" here? It seems that elsewhere you've used 'male' and 'female' to refer to biology rather than identity, so I thought this might have been an error in consistency around that.

Apologies if I've misunderstood.

GoldStars3 Sun 07-May-17 18:09:06

I'm not trying to find fault, btw! Trying to be helpful in case it was a typing error. I think you are fab, and brave, and a champion for women and gender non-conforming children. flowers

mirandayardley Sun 07-May-17 18:17:36

GoldStars3

Thank you - fixed! The language around this is so damn confusing, anyone would think it purposeful...

WankingMonkey Tue 09-May-17 21:56:43

Brilliant article and its great to see you back too grin

It baffles me how people can encourage this 'transkids' thing whilst claiming to support LGB people as to me, its in your face gay eugenics. Obviously some kids may well turn out to be transsexuals but all evidence shows most of these children don't and simply go on to be gay adults. Those pushing for early transition are effectively 'anti-gay' tbh. Its awful really. I do think a lot of people do not quite know what they are supporting when blindly going along with the narrative.

SweetGrapes Tue 09-May-17 22:09:43

Placemarking. Will come back and read. Thank yousmile

dangermouseisace Wed 10-May-17 10:08:14

Great writing miranda. The 'pink princess' theme for supposedly trans boys is striking.

I'm not surprised that more girls than boys are being referred to gender clinics now, if you look at what being a girl today means as compared to how it was when I was growing up (I'm in my 40's). Pink princess metamorphosing into pneumatic sex doll, if you look at stereotypes/media.

Miffer Thu 11-May-17 02:21:27

Nice article. I watched that BBC webshow about the transgirl and the whole reason she knew she was trans was explained in 12 seconds. The rest was devoted to the medical process (and talking about typical girly stuff because after all she's just a typical girl!).

When I have tried to delve deeper into what the "thing" that makes parents so sure it always seems to be about how adamant the child is.

Datun Thu 11-May-17 08:48:22

mirandayardley.com/en/common-threads-and-narratives-of-transgender-children-and-what-this-means-for-our-lesbian-and-gay-populations/

I couldn't make the above link work, but this might do it for anyone else.

PencilsInSpace Fri 12-May-17 19:40:10

This is a great article. There seem to be so many different, fairly distinct groups all mushed up together in 'trans'. Off the top of my head, we have GNC lesbians, GNC gay boys, people with actual sex dysphoria, AGP men, kids with autism, girls who have suffered sexual abuse, kids with wider MH issues.

It's wrong that all these disparate narratives and issues are lumped in together. I don't see that it helps anyone except dishonest AGP men.

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