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XX people having their own gaming tournament? This will not do!

(68 Posts)
coleridge Fri 05-May-17 21:28:10

Trans women want to attend a female-only gaming tournament, tournament organisers are horrendous awful bigots for wanting them to confirm their legal gender in an attempt to protect the tournament from getting trolled by men.

I love gaming and always have and while there are some fantastic men who love it when someone else shares their hobby, far too many male gamers are extremely hostile to female gamers.

These trans women were not told they were not women or could not attend, the organisers just wanted to be clear that they had taken the steps to change their legal gender. How horrible, how bigoted.

Glad to see some in the comments have sense.

coleridge Fri 05-May-17 21:28:53

ChocChocPorridge Fri 05-May-17 22:26:58

I've been to the occasional gaming tournament, I've watched them on TV, and when I was 18, they were bloody intimidating.

Now I'm more than twice that, and they're much less exciting and I've realised lot more stinky than is ideal, and I took my kids to a local one recently (it had been billed as suitable) and it really wasn't, and I wouldn't go again.

If there was a women's only one I'd be much more likely to give it another shot, and if I was 18 year old me, a women's one would be positively wonderful.

Women are allowed things for women. Trans don't have to be involved in everything, and anyone who says otherwise can get knotted.

ChocChocPorridge Fri 05-May-17 22:28:45

"Now when I saw this [email], I almost broke down in tears; here I am thinking we finally have a shot to shine and show our true colours to the gaming world... and then we get shut down based on our looks, because we didn't look 'female' enough for them,

Nope. you were shut down because you're males, and this was a chance for females to shine (I spent enough time fighting for half as much time on the consoles as the boys had at youth club - we need our space!). Your true colours have been fully shown by your actions.

QuentinSummers Fri 05-May-17 22:33:33

The comments are horrendous sad

Barcoo2 Fri 05-May-17 22:36:18

Ugh, the comments.

"I'm a real woman because i say i am."


Handmaidens who say the real problem is the lack of legal self-identification.

picklemepopcorn Fri 05-May-17 22:37:20

we finally have a shot to shine and show our true colours to the gaming world...

Why did they need a women's tournament to do that?

ChocChocPorridge Fri 05-May-17 22:49:13

Ugh you're right Quentin.

A couple of good women though, sticking to their guns and getting abused for it, as usual.

sticklebrix Fri 05-May-17 23:04:11

Those comments shock

Terfing Fri 05-May-17 23:19:13

Buzzfeed is so pro-trans that they're their own parody. It's a shame because they do have a large readership. sad

OlennasWimple Sat 06-May-17 02:10:14

So in short, people entering a women-only event are asked to provide legal documentation that proves that they are eligible to enter. People are unable to do so, and kick off that it is all very unfair. Admin repeats again that all they need to do is provide documentation that demonstrate that they are eligible to enter. People flounce and go to the media.

Is that right?

BTW I love the BTL comments from Syd Munroe:

^oh for fucksake if you are changing your name, eye colour(permenantly) or nationality never mind your gender ,the onus is on you to ensure your identifying documents are up to date and reflect such changes. Otherwise what's the fucking point of I.D
It can cost between 80-300 quid yes but that's for all changes and unlike with other changes there's no shortage of advocacy groups that would willingly help young and or unemployed transgender beings with both the process and cost. Thusly the folks above are crying discrimination just because they'really fucking lazy entitled fucking brats AKA bitch as punks^

This was, for me, the salient point for Tara Hudson (I think it was) who had been living as a woman for many years before she received a prison sentence and was sent to a men's prison because she hadn't sorted out the necessary paperwork to be treated as a woman.

I don't get why if this is so very important to your sense of identity, and you are publically "out" (so there are no concerns about employment discrimination etc as a result of the documentation change) you don't do the necessary paperwork to formalize everything.

nooka Sat 06-May-17 02:25:45

I don't think Tara was even 'living like a woman' anyway, not many women make their living from their 'seven inch surprises' after all. The reason Tara was transferred was due to perceived prettiness. Which I guess feeds into the perception that all that matters is passing.

WhereYouLeftIt Sat 06-May-17 04:32:40

I wonder if the organisers anticipated the problem - calling the tournament 'Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 5on5 Female Open Summer 2017' (my bolding). Not 'Women's Open' - 'Female Open'.

Maybe not, could just be the translation since it was held in Germany. But still, I wonder ...

ChocChocPorridge Sat 06-May-17 07:25:36

I've seen this reported elsewhere now, and it seems to me what really upsets them, is that they were asked to prove they were female, and other females weren't.

ie. they were upset that they were recognised as male and asked to prove that they'd made some effort to transition.

They're mainly angry because a group of women pointed out that they can tell they're not women and that they are expected to actually have done something else to justify their inclusion (and it seems that had they been able to provide it, they would have been let in no problem)

Male entitlement showing through there. Expecting women to lie to them to make them feel better and excuse them from doing any work.

hesterton Sat 06-May-17 07:31:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Collidascope Sat 06-May-17 08:01:21

I've been reading through those comments underneath and they're awful. Lesbians being told they're transphobic if they don't want to sleep with a 'woman' with a penis.
I think the conflation of the words 'sex' and 'gender' is massively problematic and omnipresent at the moment. You fill out the discrimination part of a job application and you'll be asked for your gender rather than your sex despite the fact that it is sex which might form the grounds of discrimination, not 'gender (whatever gender is).

I don't know if it's arisen originally because we're a bit prudish about saying "sex" or if it's intentionally to blur the lines between biology and a feeling of identity, but it really does hinder argument. I always like the response when faced with the cotton ceiling argument that "I'm heterosexual/homosexual, not heterogenderal/homogenderal."

treaclesoda Sat 06-May-17 08:07:21

If transwomen are so keen on their opportunity to shine, they could always organise a transwomen gaming contest all of their own...hmm

DameDeDoubtance Sat 06-May-17 08:22:09

We no longer have the right to meet without men being present sad

Datun Sat 06-May-17 09:01:14

Those comments are awful. One woman, a lesbian, valiantly trying to not say out loud that transwomen are men and being backed into an ever smaller corner.

However, just referencing a refusal to date trans woman as a whole (with no knowledge of said genitalia, looks, etc) — that is definitely transphobic. And that's the point most make in that discussion.

It's true that people can be attracted to one gender and not another, and we typically define that attraction as sexuality. Women who like women are said to be lesbians. We don't say it's discriminatory that they don't like men. But, trans women are women. If you're saying you are "not attracted to trans women," you are saying trans women are not women. So which is it?


Totally agree with your comment.

Datun Sat 06-May-17 09:04:53

And I just want to add, that this is further evidence of the wholesale cultural acceptance of self identification.

The legal process has not become just a minor detail, it's becoming irrelevant.

patodp Sat 06-May-17 09:07:46

"It's extremely upsetting and I wish we could be treated like normal people"
Uh... You are being treated as a normal person. A male. In a wig and lipstick. It's fine, you want to look that way, great. You're still male.

I'm glad there are sensible groups out there who realise female only means female only and by default that excludes TIMs.

It reminds me of a group I'm in called "__ Sisterhood". The admin posted another reminder that this means No Males Allowed. I couldn't resist but post "Are transwomen allowed?" And they replied sensibly. They allow transwomen with careful consideration, if they can prove such and such (can't recall exactly) but I did think OK the blind acceptance that I am a woman simply by saying so is not prolific everywhere.

I CBA to read all the comments but the top comment BTL was heartening, women are discouraged from esport and if you grew up male you wouldn't have been discouraged so you have an advantage and the group is designed to encourage females. Get over it.

BigDeskBob Sat 06-May-17 09:14:42

"The legal process has not become just a minor detail, it's becoming irrelevant."

Yes, this sort of tournament is perfectly legal, yet the social pressure and bad publicly make it so difficult to happen.

Bambambini Sat 06-May-17 12:11:03

Ok, so reading the comments- how are we supposed to find a common ground on this sort of thinking - where do we meet to try and compromise or please everyone?

"If Ronda Rousey and Jim Parsons got in a fight, who do you think would have the physical advantage? Your views about gender are archaic, misinformed and steeped in stereotyping. Cass is 100% correct. Trans women are women and should be treated exactly the same as cis women. If you don't want to be the enemy then maybe don't be a shitty TERF? A lot of your comments on this thread have been aggressive and discriminatory against trans women so maybe fuck off with your high and mighty "accept others opinions" bullshit.

Bianca, while I appreciate your respectful tone, I also feel it is misguided and takes away a trans woman's individual experiences. No event should be for cis women only. Either it should be for all women or no women. Take your pick. Trans women are just as much women as cis women are."

And this from someone called Josiah - so presumably male (maybe not these days) - thanks for telling us how it is.

Datun Sat 06-May-17 12:21:43

No event should be for cis women only

And it is this line which is turning women onto feminism everywhere.

People who couldn't have cared less, live and let live, are suddenly having an eh? moment.

Bambambini Sat 06-May-17 12:32:07

Another comment. When will folk realise what irrational bullying cultush ideology is being promted by many transactivists/allies?

"You're definitely obsessed over these points. If you say 'I will not date a trans woman.' Guess what, that's transphobic. That's not rape culture, that's you being shitty. If you say "I would date a trans woman, but not one with a penis' —I question why you're reducing someone to just their genitalia, but sure. That's fine.

However, just referencing a refusal to date trans woman as a whole (with no knowledge of said genitalia, looks, etc) — that is definitely transphobic. And that's the point most make in that discussion."

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