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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

"gender violence" instead of 'sexual assault"

28 replies

IamalsoSpartacus · 29/04/2017 00:43

The language in this Independent story has confused me - surely rape is sexual assault, not gender assault? Is this an example of language being modified to reflect the new reality of gender being more 'real' than sex, or am I just confused?

(I'm also surprised it's only being described as 'rape-adjacent' not rape, but that's not my main issue with the article.)

"Removing a condom during sex - known as stealthing - transforms a consensual act into a non-consensual one. It's a little-discussed form of gender violence, but that is all changing thanks to a new study into the phenomenon, published last week."

Full story: www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/stealthing-men-remove-condoms-sex-without-consent-during-mid-coitus-a7700906.html

OP posts:
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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 29/04/2017 15:05

How horrible. If that had happened to me I'd consider it a form of rape.

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0phelia · 29/04/2017 15:16

Julian Assange was guilty/accused of this and had to go into hiding for ever.
So many other blokes out there get away with it, and if it's reported the police laugh at this non-crime.

It happens a lot to prostitutes.
I've had it happen. You tell the police about this form of rape, they laugh in your face "what do you expect? What do you want us to do about it?"

Stealthing is one of the reasons I am pro-Nordic Model on prostitution. Cut through the crap. If a bloke does this to you, just prove he paid you for sex. That's all. Doesn't matter what he actually did to get reported. Just report him for paying for sex because you can't prove anything else. So simple.

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0phelia · 29/04/2017 15:18

More on topic though, yeah it's not "gender violence" is it? Surely it's plain and simple male violence. Women can't wear a condom
Male aggression? Rape?

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0phelia · 29/04/2017 15:21

Oh fuck, no, women can and do wear a condom (if they're a man) oh deary me... what a load of dodging the real issue waste of brain space.

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 29/04/2017 15:21

It's not really violence, though it's definitely male. It's abuse.

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VestalVirgin · 29/04/2017 15:37

Prawn, why would it not be violence? It causes physical harm by way of STD and pregnancy.

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BetsyM00 · 29/04/2017 15:40
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woman12345 · 30/04/2017 08:28

Sorry this isn't exactly on topic, but I was so shocked at this stat on number of acid attacks on women in London:
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/29/acid-attacks-italy-gessica-notaro
"This figure may pale in comparison with England, where in London alone there were 454 such attacks last year"
454 Shock

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Trills · 30/04/2017 08:30

That's definitely poor use of language.

I would think that "gender violence" was an attack motivated by the gender of the person being attacked, whether or not the attack was sexual in nature.

I agree that it is rape. Someone can consent to one sexual act (sex with condom), and if their rapist also carries out sexual acts that they did not consent to (sex without condom) then that is rape.

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SomeDyke · 30/04/2017 09:14

I was thinking about the Ian Paterson case. Although his motives were listed as 'obscure', I thought that:
He claimed to be a breast surgeon, hence his victims were mostly women.
He obtained their consent by deception (telling someone they are at risk of or have cancer when they aren't/don't).
Their bodily integrity was certainly violated.
Seems to have been about power given the 'god complex' quotes.
Unlike some ther rogue surgeons in the US where there were clear financial motives, I don't think his specialization in terms of breasts hence mainly female patients was an accident. Unlike Harold Shipman, he didn't kill his female patients, but the motivation was still sexed! He spent his career attacking womens breasts, effectively. And got paid and praise for it..................

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 30/04/2017 13:34

I suppose you're right, Vestal. I guess I was thinking of the position when it's reversed, when a woman takes unilateral action to conceive against her DP's wishes. I don't think that's rape, but I agree that the two are different because pregnancy and potential exposure to STIs are physically dangerous, whereas becoming a dad against your will isn't.

know someone who was pretty certain his then partner deliberately deceived him and got pregnant to "trap" him. He was in the process of ending the relationship and she didn't want this. I know her and its all too credible. He was heartbroken to be having a baby with a woman he didn't like or respect, but he's a devoted, attentive dad.

When I first heard this tale I was adamant that he should have been using a condom if he didn't want a baby. He said they'd talked about it and she said she had a coil. As he pointed out, using a condom when your DP has assured you she's covered would be very rude. And awkward. He didn't stay with her, but he adores his DC.

The idea of a man essentially doing the reverse to his unwitting DP reminded me of this episode. But they aren't actually parallel, as you've reminded me.

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QueenOfTheSardines · 30/04/2017 13:55

I think they are trying to say it's a form of male violence against women but changing the language because of NAMALT and genderist stuff. In the end it obscures what they are trying to say somewhat - of course teh very next line makes clear this is about men sexually violating women.

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BigDeskBob · 30/04/2017 14:04

It could be that the author wasn't confident in using rape and sexual assault in this context, therefore used this term instead. I agree its odd and sounds like an attack on a persons gender. I've never heard of it being used before.

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WankingMonkey · 30/04/2017 14:23

Gender violence is a made up term that means fuck all.

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VestalVirgin · 30/04/2017 14:33

The only sensible reason to use a term like "gender violence" would be as a general term for hatecrimes against women.

In which case "sexist violence" or "hatecrimes against women" would be clearer.

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OlennasWimple · 30/04/2017 15:29

To me, "gender violence" could include someone getting a punch in the face because of their gender presentation (effeminate man or butch women for example).

I read "sexual assault" as relating to sexually-related activity, not assault because of the victim's sex (as opposed to gender)

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 30/04/2017 15:58

I like the term *femocide" for the killing of women because of their sex. It highlights the specific hatred of women in DV, etc.

"Gender violence" makes no sense, I'm with Monkey. Going on the basis that people prefer to use "gender" when they mean "sex" these days, it's probably a rephrasing of "sexual violence", by which they actually mean "male violence".

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QueenOfTheSardines · 30/04/2017 16:46

If the language around male on female violence - sex based violence - is reframed / renamed as "gender violence" then it changes it to mean violence around gender ID / presentation and erases the sex based nature. All of this is an attack on the language women need to describe the things that happen to them around the world because of their sex.

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QueenOfTheSardines · 30/04/2017 16:47

And also an attempt to hide or invisibilise the perpetrator ie men.

"Male violence against women" is too blunt and it upsets people, so they use this flannel and then everyone can say NAMALT and women do it too & etc

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KindDogsTail · 30/04/2017 16:56

I think that is rape.

As to calling it 'gender' violence instead of 'sexual' violence the two parts of speech don't even match up.

Maybe a clever linguist can come on here and explain just how stupid it is to try to swop those words.

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KindDogsTail · 30/04/2017 17:05

Sex without a condom when that was not agreed effectively means sex without consent: Scroll down to conditional consent. This is from
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/consent/#a07


Reasonable belief in consent
Deciding whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps (A) has taken to ascertain whether (B) consents (subsection (2) of sections 1-4). It is likely that this will include a defendant's attributes, such as disability or extreme youth, but not if (s)he has any particular fetishes.

The Act abolished the Morgan defence of a genuine though unreasonably mistaken belief as to the consent of the complainant. The defendant (A) has the responsibility to ensure that (B) consents to the sexual activity at the time in question. It will be important for the police to ask the offender in interview what steps (s)he took to satisfy him or herself that the complainant consented in order to show his or her state of mind at the time.

The test of reasonable belief is a subjective test with an objective element. The best way of dealing with this issue is to ask two questions:

Did the defendant believe the complainant consented? This relates to his or her personal capacity to evaluate consent (the subjective element of the test).
If so, did the defendant reasonably believe it? It will be for the jury to decide if his or her belief was reasonable (the objective element).
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Evidential presumptions (section 75)
Section 75 lists the circumstances in which rebuttable evidential presumptions about the absence of consent apply. If the defendant did the relevant act, as defined in section 77 (the sexual activity within sections 1-4), and the circumstances specified in subsection (2) exist and the defendant knew they existed, then the complainant is to be taken not to have consented.

The Act imposes an evidential burden on the defendant to adduce sufficient evidence to raise an issue that the complainant consented and whether or not the defendant reasonably believed the complainant consented. The question whether the defendant adduces sufficient evidence to raise an issue to be left to a jury is a matter for the judge. The issue should be left to a jury where the evidence, if accepted, raises a prima facie case. Once the defendant has done this, it will be for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the complainant did not consent and that the defendant did not reasonably believe the complainant consented.

Prosecutors should note that in practice the evidential presumptions very rarely apply.

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Conclusive presumptions (section 76)
Section 76 provides two conclusive presumptions that the complainant did not consent to the activity and the defendant did not believe that the complainant consented.

The first presumption, based on the defendant intentionally deceiving the complainant as to the nature or purpose of the relevant act, has been the subject of discussion in several cases including:

In R v Jheeta [2007] EWCA Crim 1699 where the defendant had deceived the complainant and pressured her into having sexual intercourse more frequently than she would have done otherwise, the conclusive presumption did not apply because there had been no deception as to the nature or purpose of sexual intercourse.
In R v Tabassum [2002] 2 Cr App R 328 where the defendant conducted breast examinations for his own sexual gratification, on the pretence that he was collecting data for a cancer screening programme there was no genuine consent because the complainants had consented only to an act of a medical nature and not for any other reason.
In R v Devonald [2008] EWCA Crim 527 the conviction of causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent was upheld where the defendant in order to embarrass his victim, posed as a young woman and persuaded him to masturbate in front of a webcam.
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'Conditional' Consent
Section 74 has recently been considered by the High Court and the Court of Appeal in a series of cases where ostensible consent in relation to sexual offences was considered not to be true consent, either because a condition upon which consent was given was not complied with or because of a material deception (other than one which falls within section 76 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 [SOA]). The resultant judgments identified three sets of circumstances in which consent to sexual activity might be vitiated where the condition was breached.

In Julian Assange v Swedish Prosecution Authority [2011] EWHC 2849 (Admin), an extradition case, the President of the Queens Bench Division considered the situation in which Mr Assange knew that AA would only consent to sexual intercourse if he used a condom. Rejecting the view that the conclusive presumption in section 76 of the SOA would apply in these circumstances the President concluded that the "issue of materiality ...can be determined under section 74 rather than section 76".

On the specific facts the President said:

"It would plainly be open to a jury to hold that if AA had made clear that she would only consent to sexual intercourse if Mr Assange used a condom, then there would be no consent if, without her consent, he did not use a condom, or removed or tore the condom ..... His conduct in having sexual intercourse without a condom in circumstances where she had made clear she would only have sexual intercourse if he used a condom would therefore amount to an offence under the Sexual Offences Act 2003...."

In R (on the application of F) v The DPP [2013] EWHC 945 (Admin), the High Court examined an application for judicial review of the refusal of the DPP to initiate a prosecution for rape and/or sexual assault of the complainant by her former partner. "Choice" and the "freedom" to make any particular choice must, the Court said, be approached in "a broad commonsense way".

Against what the Court described as the "essential background" of the complainant's partner's "sexual dominance" and the complainant's "unenthusiastic acquiescence to his demands", the Court considered a specific incident when the claimant consented to sexual intercourse only on the clear understanding that her partner would not ejaculate inside her vagina. She believed that he intended and agreed to withdraw before ejaculation, and he knew and understood that this was the only basis on which she was prepared to have sexual intercourse with him. When he deliberately ejaculated inside the complainant, the result, the Court stated was:

"She was deprived of choice relating to the crucial feature on which her original consent to sexual intercourse was based. Accordingly her consent was negated. Contrary to her wishes, and knowing that she would not have consented, and did not consent to penetration or the continuation of penetration if she had any inkling of his intention, he deliberately ejaculated within her vagina. In law, this combination of circumstances falls within the statutory definition of rape".

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KindDogsTail · 30/04/2017 17:09

Rachel Hosie who wrote the article must think 'gender' and 'sex' mean the same thing; and she must also think the 'gender' and 'sexual' are the same part of speech.

It is a pity the editor has allowed this.

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Trills · 30/04/2017 22:26

To me, "gender violence" could include someone getting a punch in the face because of their gender presentation (effeminate man or butch women for example)

Olenna I agree. That's what it sounds like to me.

Or the ever-present, always-applicable "I don't know what you are"

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Railgunner1 · 01/05/2017 09:51

Note how this sounds much softer and 'not as bad' as RAPE

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ActuallyThatsSUPREMECommander · 01/05/2017 09:55

It's also not a purely misogynistic crime, because it's also committed by men against other men. Far better to call it sexual assault, sex by deception, sexual violation or just rape.

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