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Just a thought

(228 Posts)
YellowChicken Fri 14-Apr-17 11:53:36

feminism

the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Just a thought and I can see me getting my butt handed to me but if feminism is about equality of sexes then should it not support both sexes?
I understand alot of issues in the world directly affect women but sometimes I fine feminism to be used as a big hate compain against men when really it should be bringing us all together and creating a fair and equal society.

Dont get me wrong im all for what feminism is but sometimes I feel that the idea of equality.

An example

I cant say all women do but alot objectify men on their appearance. I seem many people on here talk about "sexy" men in a derogatory way. A crush that makes their "fanny tingle" (yes iv read that) is no different to a guy saying a woman makes his cock hard.
A guy looking at a women body and making derogatory comments is no different from a female seeing a topless guys and making comments about his body.

However there are movements about how men should not look at a womans body and be aroused by it. That is just basic biology

Porn is another example people focus on the women in porn but there are just as many men in porn and alot of women watch porn. The idea that women in porn make unreachable expectations of how a woman should look and behave in the bedroom can be an issue with men in porn. Be it gay, tv or heterosexual.

Who is speaking up for them men?

The idea that women can only be sexually assaulted when I know many males who have been.
Who is sticking up for them men?

The pension age is lower for females, we have the choice of terminating a pregnancy regardless of how a male thinks or feels, we more often then not get full custody of children.

And thats just a few examples.

I often think the true meaning of equality is forgotten.

Right light me up

DJBaggySmalls Fri 14-Apr-17 11:57:02

Since the 1970's, feminists have been saying that patriarchy and misogyny harm men as well as women.
What do you want to do about those injustices, and what support do you want from feminists?

JigglyTuff Fri 14-Apr-17 11:57:28

Men can speak up for men. We have enough work to do

YellowChicken Fri 14-Apr-17 12:00:41

Its just a though that while campaigning foe equality on certain issues others that are no equal for men are ignored. Im 100% for the equality of women in society but should that not work for men aswell

YellowChicken Fri 14-Apr-17 12:03:04

JigglyTuff

To want equality of womens rights must include wanting equality for mens also as I say women do have some benefits men do not. To not fight for then to have the same benefits as us and us to have the same benefits as them it is just in essence flipping the table for women to be the superiors when it should be about equality

7Days Fri 14-Apr-17 12:04:14

There are quite a few threads on this board that address your concerns.

YellowChicken Fri 14-Apr-17 12:05:57

7Days

Thank you 7 ill see if I can find any. Im interested in the opinion of what iv said ill see if I can fine one

MorrisZapp Fri 14-Apr-17 12:06:10

'who is speaking up for them men?'

I don't know. Men?

Mermaidinthesea123 Fri 14-Apr-17 12:06:31

Really? Are you a man?
I've spent my entire 30 year career fighting to be "equal" Aged 55 just 2 weeks ago was asked in an interview if I had any young children at home. When I said no, employer (a man), looked relieved and said he didn't employ young women who might get pregnant or with young children at home as they are "unreliable".
At the very beginning of my career I had to take my employer to court because he tried to sack me for being pregnant - my employer lost and was himself sacked.
And don't even talk to me about the sheet vast number of innocent males who are raped by us vicious females, I'm surprised they dare go out at night and they certainly shouldn't ever wear provocative clothing or get drunk in public.
Please!

7Days Fri 14-Apr-17 12:10:57

No not at all. There are plenty problems in this world, we could all take one each and see how far we can get. Feminists focus their energies on womens' problems. Like cardiologists focus their energies on dodgy tickers. If men feel disadvantaged in certain areas they are free to face the challenge of fixing it. Feminists have laud great groundwork for them if they want to use it. The notion if equality itself is a feminist victory. Also there is pkenty of feminist theory particularly about the harmfullness of gender roles, that I believe would be very helpful to men especially when it comes to areas of careers and caring, emotional expression and bodily autonomy. That's what I would recommend for anyone interested in solving mens' problems.
Good luck!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Fri 14-Apr-17 12:12:32

Are you suggesting that feminism's job is to sort everything out for everyone?
Was it also the job of black civil rights campaigners to sort out all the areas where white people were struggling? Serious question.

MorrisZapp Fri 14-Apr-17 12:14:17

Many of men's problems are caused by patriarchy anyway. Men's suicide rates, poor health, failure to engage with help etc is because of perceptions of masculinity.

Not because of feminism. Feminists want men to talk about their problems and see their doctors.

YellowChicken Fri 14-Apr-17 12:14:40

No im not a man. But iv seen plenty of inequality towards men.
Iv seen men suffer from domestic violence. I know men who have beeb abused by women, I have known women take children away from men for no reason, I have seen men cut to pieces because the female got a termination when he was desperate to keep the baby, I seen women get 9 months off work after giving birth and men get two weeks.

This is not equality to shrug mens issues away because women have sone issues is ridiculous to claim them issues are not there is ridiculous and does not fight for the equality that feminism is supposed to promote

DJBaggySmalls Fri 14-Apr-17 12:16:23

What did you do to challenge those violent women that you know?

MorrisZapp Fri 14-Apr-17 12:17:32

What are men doing about these issues? Women dearly want longer paternity leave for men, are men themselves campaigning for it?

sherazade Fri 14-Apr-17 12:18:31

Some men have been hard done by some women.

Women, across the globe, and since the dawn of time , have been and continue to be universally and unequivocally abused by men because of their physical advantage .

Hope this clarifies it for you .

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Fri 14-Apr-17 12:18:41

'I seen women get 9 months off work after giving birth and men get two weeks.'

That's really unfair. When men give birth they should have the same length of maternity leave as women.

MorrisZapp Fri 14-Apr-17 12:18:46

It's like an in-flight safety talk. Women, first sort out everybody else before making any of your needs known.

Mermaidinthesea123 Fri 14-Apr-17 12:24:41

Very true, I'm sure men have their own movements, families need fathers for example, mens advice line, Pink UK, fathers for justice and so on and so forth.
It's not my job to chase around men making sure they are ok before tending to my own needs. i did that throughout my two marriages.
I have a lovely adult son and whilst I would support him to the end I'd also refer him to a suitable group if he had a problem that he needed to discuss with other men. Same for me.

IAmAmy Fri 14-Apr-17 12:26:39

Just a thought but seeing as women suffer from misogyny daily starting from a very young age then perhaps it shouldn't be the job of feminists to go out of their way to campaign for men's issues. Feminism is supportive of men anyway, wanting to free us all from "gender" and the limits it imposes on us, away from men being pushed to act in a way society deems appropriately "manly", away from women being the default primary caregiver to their children (which would lead to more men getting custody of children potentially - the reason mothers generally do is partly due to outdated views on appropriate roles of women and men, but also you don't know how many of those fathers seeking custody actually warranted it), the list is endless.

As for objectification, it's just not in the slightest way comparable. Women and girls are harassed on the street daily. When a grown man told me on a quiet road on my walk to school at 14 that I'd "tempt many boys" I don't think he'd got the supposed message about men not being able to look at women's bodies you claim is sent out. Nor have the countless other men and boys who've objectified and harassed me and every other girl I know over the past few years.

Women and girls are overwhelmingly victims of sexual assault and rape. It happens in the home, on the street, in schools, at work, by friends, acquaintances, partners, strangers, it's an epidemic. No-one denies men and boys can be victims of sexual assault but the vast majority of victims are women, we run the risk of it constantly, and the perpetrators of such assaults on both are beyond overwhelmingly men.

As for porn, the impact it's having on young boys and how they're viewing, speaking of, treating and what they expect from girls as a result of it harms them but most of all harms girls.

I could go on but am being anti social at the breakfast table.

Gallavich Fri 14-Apr-17 12:27:39

Objectification of female bodies contributes to a culture where women are valued primarily on their looks and sexual assault and rape is normalised. This is not the same when women objectify men's bodies.

Pornography often depicts sexual interactions that are degrading, objectifying, physically harmful for women but not men. Women are overwhelmingly lower paid and used up very quickly due to the injuries they receive. Men are overwhelmingly the directors and producers of porn who make money from the ruination of women's bodies and health.

Women can terminate pregnancies because their bodies are the ones which get pregnant. There is no way to be equal in this case.

Women usually get main care of children because they are already doing it prior to the end of the relationship. If men want to be main carers for their children they can advocate for it in their personal lives and take the career and financial hits. They rarely do.

Men are sexually assaulted but usually by other men. Sexual assault of men by women is rare, and also far less likely to result in physical injury, pregnancy or death to the man than a female victim.

Patriarchy harms men but it's also overwhelmingly favours them. Feminism is about liberating women from the oppressive patriarchs system. Men can come along for the ride if they are behind the principles of the movement but they cannot by definition be centred in feminism.

YellowChicken Fri 14-Apr-17 12:27:47

Men should get just as much time with their child its insane to say otherwise.

MLK often spoke about all races and sexes being treated as equal

Im not saying feminist shouldnt campaign for womens rights. Im saying should it not be about equal rights.

IAmAmy Fri 14-Apr-17 12:28:57

to shrug mens issues away because women have sone issues is ridiculous

Yeah men harassing, assaulting, raping and killing us on a huge scale is "some issues".

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Fri 14-Apr-17 12:29:08

Listen, op. Male domestic violence against women is at crisis levels at the moment because in the UK two women a week die from it.
Women abusing men is absolutely not ok and it most certainly happens - financial and emotional as well as physical. But it is not killing two men a week. Women murdering male partners is, fortunately, extremely rare.
In a crisis situation there is always triage ; you focus your attention on the people who are actually going to die without intervention. We need to save those two lives a week and I make no apology if until that is done, women victims receive a disproportionate focus. When men stop killing women maybe then we can stop focusing on it.

stitchglitched Fri 14-Apr-17 12:30:53

'I've seen men cut to pieces because the female got a termination'

What is your point here? Men have bodily autonomy already, abortion rights are necessary to ensure women have it too. Unless you think that women should have veto over medical procedures that effect their male partner's body and physical and mental health.

Re men being objectified too. Either way is wrong but look at the consequences for each sex. Do men feel so threatened with being objectified that they feel panicked and unsafe when out at night or walking past a group of men? Are vulnerable men being trafficked in their thousands and purchased as sex objects by women? Are at least one in four men being sexually assaulted by women?

Custody of children usually goes to the primary carer. If men want an equal part in raising their children post divorce maybe they need to do their share beforehand too, including the hits to their career.

Feminism is about more than equality. The sexes can have equality on paper but women are still oppressed in reality. Men are welcome to fight for any rights they think they are lacking, women's issues keep feminism busy enough already.

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