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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Beat THIS for an answer to the question "what is a woman?"

69 replies

SerfnTerf · 04/04/2017 16:57

First answer: "A woman is someone who is identified as a woman. That's why people say it's socially constructed"

Me "But that's circular. There must be a definition of what a woman is for anyone to identify or be identified as one"

Second answer: "If you give any definition of a woman, there are people who you could identify as "a woman" and who anyone on the street would say - "That's a woman" - and they would not fit that definition"

So... what, we can't define woman because we can't actually define the word in a way that encompasses men? So let's not bother? I don't have enough words or brain to take that any further. Just wow.

OP posts:

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Soubriquet · 04/04/2017 17:03

Well guess what. That tree that's outside your window? It's a woman. I am identifying it as a woman. It shall now be known as woman and not tree

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 04/04/2017 17:07

Did you ask this person for a definition of man too? Because that usually seems to be solid & not up for discussion.

Great username BTW.

SerfnTerf · 04/04/2017 17:11

The username is courtesy of DP, no credit to me on that (name changed as this discussion took place on a family member's Facebook and is potentially outing!)

I just keep looking at the cat and wondering if the same applies to the word cat.

OP posts:

ProcrastinatingSquid2 · 04/04/2017 17:26

I wonder if it's the same for 'fat'. So an anorexic girl weighing 5 stone can be fat if she feels like she is. Because it maintains its former meaning of 'overweight' but discards it at the same time meaning any old skeleton can be fat. It's a very dishonest and stupid way of using language.

IAmAmy · 04/04/2017 18:09

The cat next door has started identifying as a mouse. I heard all the mice run away as soon as the cat tries to get in their place under the shed, they're such bigoted CERMs. Can't they understand the mousecat needs to enter their space as they won't be safe with other cats?

Datun · 04/04/2017 18:12

Second answer: "If you give any definition of a woman, there are people who you could identify as "a woman" and who anyone on the street would say - "That's a woman" - and they would not fit that definition"

So what definition would apply to th....oh, I can't be arsed.

Lottapianos · 04/04/2017 18:16

I might start identifying as a cat. That could be fun - lie around all day, go everywhere at my own pace, suit myself at all times. I'm terrified of mice though. On reflection I would be a shit cat

Empress, spot on about the distinct lack of hand wringing about the definition of a man

ATailofTwoKitties · 04/04/2017 18:28

It shall now be known as woman and not tree

I seem to remember, from a botany book ages back, that it's quite hard to define a tree. 'Oh, come on, you know it's a tree if it's big and tree-y, or small but still sort of like a tree anyway' seemed to be the idea.

Sorry, I'll close the door quietly.

Datun · 04/04/2017 18:37

"If a man speaks in a forest and no one hears him, is he still wrong?"

Depends on whether the trees have identified as having aural capability.

IAmAmy · 04/04/2017 18:44

I started identifying as a cat some time ago - I expect to be able to come and go as I please from the house without anyone questioning me, be provided with food on demand by its owners and have any seat I wish to utilise be vacated immediately. No-one has yet validated my true identity. CERFs.

SomeDyke · 04/04/2017 18:47

"I seem to remember, from a botany book ages back, that it's quite hard to define a tree. "
I seem to recall that even trees themselves have a surprising amount of genetic shenanigans going on. Sex/species all get complicated, then with cloning and rootstock/scion grafting, even worse again.........

I prefer the pragmatic if you can climb it (or hang baubles on it), it's probably a tree. Otherwise bush/shrub/small tree. Or the gardening specific if it needs the BIG lopers, it's a tree, if the secateurs will do the job, it's a bush.......................(except some bushes need the nail scissors! I could hang baubles on mine at the moment, frankly................).

BetsyM00 · 04/04/2017 18:59

SomeDyke Are you now defining a woman as by being able to hang baubles on her bush

PoochSmooch · 04/04/2017 19:17

Second answer: "If you give any definition of a woman, there are people who you could identify as "a woman" and who anyone on the street would say - "That's a woman" - and they would not fit that definition"

Wow. I know all these words. They're all arranged into sentences. There is a sort of sequence to the sentences, as if they contained a proposition.The sentences have some punctuation.

And yet the whole is utterly devoid of any actual meaning. That is almost impressive

Datun · 04/04/2017 19:21

PoochSmooch

And it's a big welcome from trans land. No nouns have any meaning other than the ones I want them to have.

elQuintoConyo · 04/04/2017 19:24

Nothing to add but i am laughing my tits off - sorry, i mean chest off!

PoochSmooch · 04/04/2017 19:28

Now, datun, would those nouns identify as masculine or feminine?

It's important. Le or la? el or la? Der, die or das? Dare you assume?!

IAmAmy · 04/04/2017 19:30

I am he as you are he as he is she as we are all transgender.

Datun · 04/04/2017 19:58

PoochSmooch

Head explodes. Anyone know what transwoman is in French? Is it masculine or feminine?

PoochSmooch · 04/04/2017 20:24

Transgender is "le transgénérisme", ie masculine. Quel surpris - masculine linguistic dominance is one of my French pet peeves (French is my second language).

I don't think there's quite such language fuckery being inflicted in French as there is in English, but it is also a minefield. I will come back to this later as I have to push off just now, but it is interesting (to a language geek anyway!) how these things differ across languages.

Now how it all works in Arabic, where everything you say is conjugated differently depending on the sex of the person you're talking to, I have no idea! For example, if you're saying "how are you?" then you say "kayfa halluka" to a man, but "kayfa halluki" to a woman. What do you say to someone transgender? All fascinating. Will come back to this tomorrow.

MariafromMalmo · 04/04/2017 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whoputthecatout · 04/04/2017 21:12

Second answer: "If you give any definition of a woman, there are people who you could identify as "a woman" and who anyone on the street would say - "That's a woman" - and they would not fit that definition"

That reminds me of the rather ancient Eric Morecombe/Andre Previn sketch at the piano. "I am playing the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order."

annandale · 04/04/2017 21:15

'Woman' is not socially constructed and there are no 'people' who say that 'it' is.

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Bue · 04/04/2017 21:26

It's as nonsensical as me declaring that I typing this post on my hippopotamus.

SomeDyke · 04/04/2017 21:33

"SomeDyke Are you now defining a woman as by being able to hang baubles on her bush "

And a gay man would (of course) need to hang baubles and fairy lights on his.................

My, next Christmas is going to be an eye-popper at our house!

Obsidian77 · 04/04/2017 21:37

I might decide to self-identify as a doctor...doesn't mean I should be allowed to treat patients.

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