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Nordic Model on the Big Questions tomorrow

(315 Posts)
LauraMipsum Sat 01-Apr-17 20:43:30

The BBC's political equivalent of Jeremy Kyle is hosting "has the time come to decriminalise sex work" tomorrow morning.

I'm going to be in the audience; if anyone wants to support the Nordic model voice via twitter please do!

MercyMyJewels Sat 01-Apr-17 22:37:09

Good luck!

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer Sat 01-Apr-17 22:48:08

Yes good luck laura

GenderEqualityAdvocate Sat 01-Apr-17 23:04:13

Brave new world. I would prefer to see the government try to reduce harm to sex workers rather than criminalise the purchase of sex.

venusinscorpio Sat 01-Apr-17 23:27:40

Good luck Laura!

VestalVirgin Sat 01-Apr-17 23:28:58

The term "sex work" doesn't fit the Nordic Model. Why do they use it? confused

GenderEqualityAdvocate Sat 01-Apr-17 23:42:15

Who are they lining up to argue the case of sex workers (most female sex workers oppose criminalisation of their clients)and choice?

Someone from the English Collective of Prostitutes? I hope they wipe the floor with you. Nothing worse than women dictating to other women on how they should live their lives and restricting their choice.

AssassinatedBeauty Sun 02-Apr-17 01:02:57

Good luck Laura, hope it goes well.

LauraMipsum Sun 02-Apr-17 08:10:45

I'm not speaking! Just watching. Unless I am motivated to wave a hand and speak from the audience.

And yes, I think the ecp are speaking.

GuardianLions Sun 02-Apr-17 08:30:30

Watch out ECP aka Mitchell can be very aggressive and intimidating in green rooms and just speaks over, defames and shouts down opponents like a proper psycho, while the hosts never have the bottle to stop the tirades or insist upon giving both side a fair say. So NM advocares never get or opportunity to explain or justify and can only come away smeared by it. Its really annoying. And agency owner Stephens too - does the same interruping, defaming - so a lot of advocates of the NM refuse to be put alongside them for good reason. While the audiences feel so awkward about the idea of "OMG she sucks dick for money - i'd better be a good liberal, get past my natural disgust and try to hear this" so they are completely uncritical of what's happening as from what I'very seen on twitter. Don't know if I can listen argh!

LauraMipsum Sun 02-Apr-17 08:49:52

Really GEA, there's NOTHING worse? I would say the massive human rights abuses attendant on the sex industry are far, far worse than any misplaced perception of prescriptivism.

GenderEqualityAdvocate Sun 02-Apr-17 09:04:53

So the debate will barely mention the Nordic model unless you make your voice heard?

It is very much a minority position. I doubt many other people in the audience will believe in it.

Decriminalisation seems to be favoured by the majority. Women in the sex industry do not always view decriminalisation so favourably but I would rather they were the ones to voice opinions on how to frame legislation than any other group who are not connected to the industry.

Allowing feminists to determine laws on the purchase of sex is utterly disastrous for all. The Nordic model does little to curtail the purchase of sex. Anything that deters sex workers and their clients from reporting illegal activities such as coercion and control to the police just plays into the hands of traffickers.

GuardianLions Sun 02-Apr-17 09:12:55

Most exited women who speak out in support of the NM are harassed by the pro lobby - including speaking at events like this radio programme.
The facts in Sweden is that prostitution reduced dramatically after purchase was outlawed.
Also remember it includes decriminalising the prostituted and offers them exist strategies.
BTW gender lots of exited women are feminist campaigners for the NM - lest you give the impression that this nasty aggressive bunch represents everyone in the sex industry!

soapboxqueen Sun 02-Apr-17 09:21:32

I'm interested in both those in prostitution and those that have left it who feel silenced by the pro-decrim lobby. It's always worrying when a group is silenced in this way. The fact that special terms of abuse need to be invented to silence critical discussion is not a route to a solution.

GuardianLions Sun 02-Apr-17 09:26:09

Additionaly the ECP states that you don't have to be a prostitute to join and you don't have to declare whether or not you are a prostitute to speak on behalf of them (it's an act of 'solidarity' that is very helpful for them) . So it is worth remembering they are also a group of feminists trying to define the law - I think they come from a form of Marxist feminism with a pretty long history.

GuardianLions Sun 02-Apr-17 09:29:53

soapbox are you as interested in hearing from people who are agency owners, etc who are not actually on the coalface but call themselves 'sexworkers'?

soapboxqueen Sun 02-Apr-17 09:32:52

Lions not massively. I feel this whole full decriminalisation thing is about business and money, not safety.

GenderEqualityAdvocate Sun 02-Apr-17 09:34:26

Most exited women speak out in favour?? What exactly are"exited women"? Most women in the industry and retired sex workers are highly critical of the NM model. They favour minimal intervention by the state. Currently they face prosecution if they work with other women and so are forced by the current laws to work alone and thus are put at greater risk.

Nobody silences the NM argument. It is just a minority viewpoint that has been largely discredited outside of feminist circles.

As for prostitution falling when you introduce the NM model ....well how do you measure it accurately once you force it underground?

Let the women who work in the industry be heard. Let them frame the laws. Legalised brothels where women can work together and work for their collective safety.

QuentinSummers Sun 02-Apr-17 09:38:58

Legalised brothels like the ones in Germany you mean? Where trafficking has increased because there aren't enough local women willing to do the work? Where punters can be 49€ for as many women as they like? Where punters can buy sex for less than the price of a big Mac?
No thanks. I don't think most people, feminist or not, want that model.

GuardianLions Sun 02-Apr-17 09:42:13

Hi gender
I don't know who most of the exited women are. I imagine the vast majority try to go quietly back to living a normal life and only a small minority become political campaigners of any kind.
Howevery, those exited who favour the NM are generally harassed and silenced at a horrific rate by the pro lobby.

soapboxqueen Sun 02-Apr-17 09:42:25

From what I gather the situation in Germany has done nothing for the women and girls still working the streets either.

venusinscorpio Sun 02-Apr-17 09:42:59

Prostitution affects all women. It should not be further legitimised.

GuardianLions Sun 02-Apr-17 09:50:45

Also - you know those enormous unqualified sweeping statements like:
"just a minority viewpoint that has been largely discredited outside of feminist circles."

Are exactly the kind of thing the ECP/pro lobby come out with and get left unchallenged on panel shows. Noone asks "NM has been adopted by the majority of Nordic countries - how can that be a minority view?" Or "who has sucessfully discredited the NM? Please show me your sources, ones who are open about their funders?"
If an interviewer ever gets to ask something along those lines it will be deranged shouty meltdown time!

GenderEqualityAdvocate Sun 02-Apr-17 09:50:54

Falling prices in the sex industry is not unique to Germany. In the UK the prices have not changed in 20 years. An influx of Eastern European and other people have meant supply outstrips demand.

20 years ago the sex industry was lucrative. Many UK nationals did it full time and many dipped in and out when they wanted. Most UK and western European women now avoid the sex industry in the UK. It no longer is as financially rewarding. Globalisation has very much hit an industry where no qualifications or education are needed.

Oh and for reference you can buy sex in Soho for £20. Considerably cheaper than a German legalised brothel.

QuentinSummers Sun 02-Apr-17 09:55:55

Oh an expert on pricing now advocate? Lovely.
Most UK and western European women now avoid the sex industry in the UK
Bwahahahaha yes women used to love a bit of sex work for pin money, it's only the falling prices that put us off now. grin

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