LBC call from a "sex worker" who loves her work apparently. So depressing.

[hilbobaggins]

I'm a long time lurker on this board and I've learned a lot about a load of stuff here, not least about prostitution and the Nordic model. A lot of my opinions have changed completely as a result of what I've read here. It's been an incredibly valuable resource for me.

I was listening to LBC and heard this www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/sex-worker-decriminalisation-of-prostitution. listening to it made me feel awful, really sad and angry on behalf of the millions of women across the world forced into prostitution and the horror of that life. It was the closest I've come to calling the show myself, but I chickened out because I couldn't think how to counter the argument of this woman who apparently is ecstatically happy fucking men for money (and apparently uses prostitutes herself, unless I got that wrong).

It made me wish I could think faster on my feet. What would you have said? Still thinking about this, still feeling disgusted about it.

[thegoodnameshadgone]

I think she made a lot of good points for people who want to do this as a profession but it downs help people forced into this. I suspect if made legal it would force forced prostitution further underground and harder to police and help the individuals concerned.

[thegoodnameshadgone]

Doesn't

[thegoodnameshadgone]

The majority of the population would not consider this route but for the minority who actively choose this, a safe workspace should be available to them.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

How would you make a prostitute's workplace safe?

[GuardianLions]

hilbo
Just to let you know they are very organised and on the case, with the usual suspects turning up on every discussion panel and radio show.
There are a lot of former prostitutes who now run agencies and call themselves sexworkers and who will not miss any opportunity to defend their business. Also notice it is extremely rare, if not completely unheard of, for the male profiteers to come out and defend the sex industry, I wouldn't be surprised if they paid some of these women to call in.
So you shouldn't take it at face value op.

[ageingrunner]

I actually think that prostitution is so damaging for so many women, men and children that it needs to be stamped out. If there are a few people who actually really enjoy having sex for money, well, tough shit, they can either do it for free, or their punters can take the choice to break the law. The buying of sex should be criminalised and people who think it's ok to buy access to other people's bodies should be heavily penalised.

[ageingrunner]

Former prostituted women who speak out against the harms done to them by the "sex industry" report being harassed by the sex industry lobby.

[SarcasmMode]

The thing with feminism you can't claim to be a feminist up to the point another female has a differing view to you.

Would I prostitute myself? No.

Do I have contempt for those who do? No.

Prostitution is never going to be obsolete, so it's all about making it as safe for as many women as possible, prostitutes included.

Yes many women are trafficked into sex but that doesn't mean that a prostitute deciding to no longer be a prostitute would actually change that.

It's like saying my cousin Travis stops smoking pot will stop drug related violence.

Traffickers are to blame, not prostitutes.

[SarcasmMode]

Btw I'd much rather a model where a punter could be prosecuted but not the sex worker.

[GuardianLions]

Prostitution is never going to be obsolete, so it's all about making it as safe for as many women as possible
You could also say that rape, incest and other forms of sexual violence will never be obsolete, but you don't try to make them 'safe as possible' - at least I presume you don't.
I can easily imagine a world where the laws around these crimes were different and women call in to minimise, defend and say they sometimes enjoyed it, its only the stigma that hurts, etc in the same way. And this small representation of victims would get all the airtime, despite the overwhelming majority of victims knowing the very acts themselves do all the damage, but being intimidated into silence in exactly the same way.

[SarcasmMode]

But Guardian rape is none consentual, so it's nowhere near the same.

Plus there are and should be more laws to make any sexual offence committed against someone a harsh punishment.

[GuardianLions]

Prostitution is purchased consent. Not real consent.

[QuentinSummers]

Would I prostitute myself? No. Do I have contempt for those who do? No.

Totally agree. I sure as shit have contempt for those who use prostitutes services. I am fed up of this debate being focused on the choice of the women involved. To me the fundamental question is, is it acceptable for a man to exchange money for the right to do what he wants to a woman's body?
Women are humans, not commodities

[GuardianLions]

Additionally there are often many factors leading up to that purchased consent such as manipulation, deceit, and a spectrum of coercive influences.

[GuardianLions]

Quite right Quentin

[SarcasmMode]

Definitely agree -Quentin.
It should be the vile men who thinks sex is their right that deserve vitriol.

[thegoodnameshadgone]

But this is the oldest profession as it's called. If someone decides to do this, they should have a safe place. No idea how you would do this. There are people in roles much cleverer than me to talk about this. I'm just making a point. If you decide to be a prison officer or nurse within a high risk catagory prison you are protected to a degree, should this not be the same for everyone in a high risk role??

[GuardianLions]

And sarcasm if you subscribe to that contractual idea of consent, you could say that was the reason it took so long for rape in marriage to be recognised as a crime. Taking marriage vows was like giving all your future sexual consent in one go so the rapes could be viewed as consensual forced sex.

[GuardianLions]

Slavery has been around for about as long as prostitution - maybe we should make that safer eh?

[QuentinSummers]

thegood if prostitutes had to follow the same safe working conditions asuch everyone else they'd need to wear gloves and goggles to deal with bodily fluids, possibly an apron too. Do you think punters would be OK with that?

[hilbobaggins]

Thank you for your responses.

Personally I find it difficult to imagine how anyone could love being a prostitute. How could letting someone inside your body in exchange for money possibly make you feel good about yourself?? If you love meeting new people, which is what she said she enjoyed about it, there are a million different jobs she could do! Interesting point GuardianLions about the fact that men can't get away with being seen to support the sex industry but women can. I felt that the presenter was absolutely lapping up this call.

I also don't think there is much difference between rape and "purchased consent" but I'm having a hard time clarifying my thoughts about this. I think of the countless women around the world who are doing this out of desperation - who basically have no real choice in the matter. Is that so different to rape?

As for legalising prostitution, it's a terrible idea. I recently read about the situation in Germany where prostitution is legal. It makes things much, much worse for all women.

[GuardianLions]

By the way - unwanted sex is intrinsically harmful and damaging. You can't make that harm safer.

[thegoodnameshadgone]

Quentin summers
Some of them would

[thegoodnameshadgone]

But ultimately some women will chase the money as to them the lure of big money is more attractive than the standard 9 to 5

[QuentinSummers]

As I've said up thread I'm not so interested in whether an individual prostitute is ok with her choices. More what kind of society allows the suspension of consent for money. Oh and the suspension of H&S rules for money too I guess