Ben Shapiro(194 Posts)
Not sure where this fits in UK statistics but applauds
Other than his opinion on anti-abortion................ sigh SIGH
I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro, but this clip shows up very clearly what else I'm not a fan of.
They're advocating violence?!?!
Also, I have asked MNHQ to take this thread down as I'd not seen the full extent of Ben's opinions on abortion and I'm not advocating that stance at all.
Why do you want the thread taken down? Other opinions on abortion are allowed. He is free to have those views and you are free to argue against him.
There are plenty of other examples of his saying what you want to hear on the issue of transgender ; although given his opinions on just about everything else you might want to choose your allies more carefully. He is certainly not comparable with say Rod Liddle or Andrew Neil who have recently been linked to on here.
(I will concede his response to Meryl Streep's embarrassing virtue signalling speech at The Golden Globes was spot on)
Don't be silly you can't the thread taken down because you disagree with his opinion on abortion .
Isn't the central point of the trans debate that it is shutting down views which oppose it? Aren't we for free speech?
It is strange for those of us who view ourselves as liberal, to find ourselves on the same side of the argument as those who we disagree with on many other issues, but we should ask ourselves why that is?
is it because liberals have become so narrow and naval gazing in thought that the the positions of free speech and truth, have been obscured by fear of offense to minority groups?
The fact that it is left to outspoken conservatives to be some of the only ones remaining prepared to state unpopular truths (unpopular in the media but not within the general population) is what has led to a rejection of liberalism. And to Trump.
I agree with what he said on trans (but thought they all confused gender/sex, is that accepted as equivalent in the USA?) I disagree with him on abortion. But he can have his views, people can make their own minds up.
We're all grown ups, I can acknowledge viewpoints with which I disagree, without having them removed/eliminated/banned. Isn't that the point of the trans debate on MN?
Datun in that clip when the trans women threatened he would be 'going home in an ambulance', were you screaming inwardly:
'Said no women to man on a TV debate EVER!!'
He/she was so aggressive in a male behaviour way.
Also the panel attacked Ben Shapiro for 'offense' not because what he said wasn't true- it always comes back to this with liberal thinking, 'offense' is more important than truth or debate. It is what leads to no platforming.
You could see their panic when he had said the thing that must not be said.
Liberals need to wake up, and start tackling the bigger issues to deal with the alt right, instead of worrying about which 0.01% minority group might get 'offended'.
For me, it was the perfect illustration of male entitlement and aggression. The TW didn't think twice. Apparently he also threatened Shapiro afterwards saying he would get him in the car park. You know, exactly the sort of thing that women are known for...
I disagree with Shapiro over his stance on abortion. But I admire his refusal to be cowed whilst remaining civil.
He called this transwoman sir. It was seen as a deliberate act of provocation. I.e. he deserved the response. Him telling the truth was seen as a justifiable reason for a violent reaction. Hmmm, where have I heard that before...?
Shapiro is obviously very bright and was relishing the easy way he was able to destruct the woolly thinking. You could see the glee when she brought up the rape/abortion question. Poor girl.
Also when he asked her why she wasn't 60, and why couldn't she be 60. That was a great tactic.
I haven't seen him before today, but I imagine his smart alec approach becomes off putting very quickly.
(I have just followed him on twitter though!)
If you want to know more about Ben Shapiro then his
interview with Dave Rubin is good. I don't agree with everything he says including around abortion and gay marriage BUT there is nothing wrong with listening to alternative view points and acknowledging their right to free speech.
Slightly off topic, I would recommend taking a look at Dave Rubin's channel, he interviews people who often have different views from him but does it in a respectful way. No shouting people down and lets them take the time to explain/justify their position. Really refreshing.
You're right about Ben Shapiro's manner, CoolJazz. I've just watched three of his videos and it gets tiresome very quickly. I couldn't follow his argument about abortion in the first video - he speaks so quickly and her voice is so blurry.
I'm interested in this idea that liberals are all of one mind on social issues and that the same is true on the right. I've seen this polarity emerge and be discussed on American forums but I don't think it's so important in the UK. For example the American conservative position on abortion is anti, whereas there's very little opposition to abortion from any direction here. Also you see attacks on feminism from the right in America - Ben Shapiro for one - but no mainstream politician would do so in the UK, because it's not considered controversial.
This is because the Conservative party here in some ways is further left than the Democrats in the USA. The NHS we are so proud of is what most Americans consider dangerous socialism.
He needs to work on his delivery skills. He is obviously bright but the constant I don't care he used in the discussion with Rubin started to wear thin.
I agree his ability to remain calm and coolly polite at all times is impressive.
I completely agree with CoolJazz taking down this thread because you don't agree with his views on abortion is the antithesis of supporting free speech.
I thought he was good. and even though I'm Pro choice re abortion because women have the right to have control of their bodies, the anti abortion argument re when life begins is logical
Fucking hell, what's happening, I'm a liberal leftie
I have wavered over abortion for a number of years, largely because I think I had an emotional viewpoint rather than a rational one.
So when I was younger, I was pro, when I had children I became anti (because I saw potential become life), and as I've got older I've become pro again. But this is because I now see it as a feminist issue which I wasn't aware of before and if you take it to its logical conclusion, you cannot force a woman to bear a child she doesn't want to, no matter what.
That doesn't mean I take abortion lightly, quite the opposite. Which is why I believe sex education, contraception, the morning after pill, etc, is such a vital issue.
And yes, Shapiro is a bit of a smart Alec, but with regards to the trans issue he is confident pushing buttons, when most people, particularly men, aren't.
I'm just calling a transwoman sir gets them to threaten you with violence, then the more exposure the better.
I agree Datun. I am fully Pro Choice although I don't believe I would have an abortion (never been in the situation so it's all theory though). And logically the baby has life from conception. But ultimately, is IS the woman's choice. It's an incredibly difficult subject
However many points Shapiro might have in the way that a stopped clock sometimes tells the right time, he is an arsehole of the highest order. I know fems have always found themselves agreeing with the right on some issues - hell, I do myself sometimes - but we really should not be giving Breitbart fucks like this any more publicity than they already have.
It's an incredibly difficult subject
I completely agree. It's almost like there's no right answer.
Shapiro was emotively talking about aborting a baby who had come to term. I can't imagine anyone thinking that that was a good idea, unless the life of the mother was threatened.
I also don't believe men should have a bloody opinion, in all honesty.
And yes, I understand the misery involved in aborting a baby against the father's wishes.
As I said, there is no right answer. Just an answer that is less wrong than another one.
User (please change your name)
At one time I would have agreed with you, but the Left have abandoned women with their right on so called progressive scripts that none can deviate from. I'll stand up for women and will take my allies where I can, thanks
Left and Right are meaningless terms, as are conservative and liberal. Trump and goons like Shapiro are basically liberals, contrary to popular opinion - full of their own supposed rights and freedoms. Except while the hippies wanted freedom to protest against Vietnam, they want the freedom to call women dogs and Mexicans rapists. Edmund Burke would be whirring in his grave.
I prefer judging people not on they're purported political positions (which are basically just masks) but on what their agendas are. They're either people who want to contribute to meaningful debate, or they're self-serving, bigoted opportunists. Shapiro, Bannon, Farage, Hopkins, Milo and that entire shower of shit spewed up by internet troll culture are firmly in the latter camp.
And I'm happy as 'user'.
As I said, there is no right answer. Just an answer that is less wrong than another one
We seem to have drifted but I agree with you. I'm afraid I also think life does begin at conception. I am very uncomfortable at the distinctions made between "a cluster of cells" and "a feotus" and say the miscarriage of a "baby"
But there will be circumstances where abortion is the least worst option and where those circumstances might appear trivial to a 3rd party. I fully support pro-choice- my personal views on this are irrelevant.
Yes the cells argument is completely illogical Lass. Abortion is a horrible but necessary right for women
So far as Shapiro, one either has to treat his opinion as sound or unsound. It is perfectly possible to agree with people on one issue and disagree completely on another.
Alternatively you can stick with an echo chamber validating opinion to the already converted. Shapiro made a well thought out attack on Meryl Streep's vacuous posturing at an awards ceremony. I bet her audience would not agree with Shapiro on trans issues.
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