Transgender women ...

[dorade]

... are men who have chosen to identify as trans women, that is people who to a greater or lesser degree adopt the cultural stereotypes generally associated with biological women.

It may be that many of these stereotypes are not in fact displayed by biological women (such as make-up, long hair and dresses).

Some transgender women take female hormones

Some transgender women also seek cosmetic surgery which includes feminising of faces, breast surgery and removal of the penis, although, contrary to common thought, only a very small minority of transgender women undergo this procedure.

Irrespective of the number of measures taken by an individual, at no point does a transgender woman cease being a biological male.

It is right and proper that transgender women are treated as equal human beings with equal rights. But as they remain biologically male that does not include access to women's only spaces such as refuges, changing rooms, prisons or women's sports.

None of the above should be in the least bit controversial.

[Celegans]

Well said.

[pincha]

Um, I agree with you, but I'm not sure what your point is - all of this has been stated many times over on other threads. I don't think you'll be winning any converts by starting another thread just to say the same thing, without any other comment.

[MercyMyJewels]

Has someone been banned?

[picklemepopcorn]

It gets said in snippets though, in among heated debate. A clear statement is not unhelpful.

[DJBaggySmalls]

'MTT' denotes Male To Trans and is a correct pronoun.

[ageingrunner]

I agree it's good to set this out clearly in one place. I think someone has been banned but not sure who. Just seen it on twitter 😔

[bamboosocks]

Seems to me that denying their male biology would be to deny their whole experience of being trans. Because that is what it's all about. Otherwise they wouldn't be trans.

[ageingrunner]

Yy banboosocks, denying tw biology is trans erasure 😮

[venusinscorpio]

I've seen people try to argue this point, but the TAs are too thick to understand what they mean.

[Thisisouting]

Who has been banned?

[AutomatonSimine]

Agreed.

Why was someone banned?

[MercyMyJewels]

I think we need to start asking TRAs if their mum is trans

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

I heard someone was banned after the hen do thread for saying that girls and women wouldn't appreciate being naked in the company of a biological male.

[MercyMyJewels]

Really Empress? I have said that many times. I think I even posted it yesterday. Who was it, do you know?

[Jog22]

Really good article on "transphobia" .

reneejg.net/2017/02/27/how-do-you-know-if-youre-transphobic-and-what-is-to-be-done-about-it/

"Consider this further vital difference between gay rights and transactivism. Historically and currently, homosexuals as a community are threatened by medical establishment intervention, because of the routine pathologisation of homosexuality. Transactivists, on the other hand, promote intervention by the medical establishment: they lobby for it constantly. That fundamental difference alone should have us questioning how closely bound the interests of these two movements really are."

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

That's all I know, Mercy.

[MercyMyJewels]

OK thanks Empress

[booox]

:( just seen on twitter. I missed it. Something to so with pronouns? Julian Vigo tweet.

[dangermouseisace]

I find it interesting that trans activists want to move away from the medicalisation of trans- hence the request to not need a gender certificate in order to use womens spaces etc. So, if their transition relies on medicine (unless they are just men in a dress), why is there a need to move away from medicalisation?

[CharlieSierra]

I don't understand why one person was banned for saying "he" and "man" when loads of posters on the thread are saying it. There are also a few accusations that the OP made the whole thing up, so undeleted troll hunting.

[Vegansnake]

What about the other way round,a young female,who has always felt she was male, genuinely feels in the wrong body...doctors can possibly help her have the male body her head feels she should have...will the men not want her in their spaces?... when it effects you personally,I found my views changed,because I know the person,and what they are going through,and they are the most genuine person you could wish to meet..

[AgainstTheOddsNo2]

All these threads seem to completely ignore the fact that there are trans men out there as well. How would you feel about these people having access to female spaces when they identify and look completely as men.

[venusinscorpio]

If they "pass", they would be able to get away with using the men's. In a cubicle. If they don't they can use the women's. Or one of the unisex spaces that would have to be set up if anyone gave a flying fuck about women.