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Seeing MP this Friday re GI Bill advice please

(42 Posts)
Usui101 Wed 22-Mar-17 15:00:57

Hi All

I have an appointment to see my MP this Friday to ask why he has not replied to my emails re the Gender Identity Bill 2016-2017 and to challenge him regarding his stance on this Bill. I am looking for one liner arguments to throw at him please. Intending to take in lots of articles for his perusal. All and any help welcomed, thanks in advance.

Usui xx

WoodPigeonInFlight Wed 22-Mar-17 15:38:35

The Gender Identity Bill, being a Private Member's Bill, will make no further progress in this parliamentary session. The bill will almost definitely not even get discussed on Friday and the wording of the bill has not yet been published. I will pop back with it when it is.

The purpose of PM's bills is to put issues on the agenda. The issues which Maria Miller seems to be wanting to raise, going by the report of the Women and Equalities Committee on Trangender Rights


1) self-identification of gender

2) removing the legal right to have single sex services and spaces.

The government hasn't accepted all the recommendations in the report but it hasn't rejected them all either and there is talk of reviewing the Gender Reassignment Act in line with self-identification of gender.

If these become law at a later date

1) will mean

-anyone can legally become a woman -self identification, no criteria
-there will be no legal category of biological woman, only "woman" aka anyone who says is women

2) will mean

no single sex services, spaces, groups, jobs. No ability to exclude transwoman on any grounds, whatever their level of transition

1) plus 2) will mean men with functioning penises in women's refuges, prisons, wards, changing rooms and absolutely nothing we can do about it.

I would raise the transgender rapist in a women's prison and point out that, appalling as this case is, it will be a lot worse when this will be happening with pre-op rapists with penises.

Sorry -not one line.

WoodPigeonInFlight Wed 22-Mar-17 15:40:29

Sorry if you already know all that Usui

DJBaggySmalls Wed 22-Mar-17 16:29:14

Have you read the Equality Committees report?

Women are 50% of the population, trans people 0.3%
Why wont women be permitted women only spaces, without being forced to include a person who has a penis?

Why are trans peoples feelings more important than the fear and anxiety of recovering abuse and rape survivors?

Why is self identification being pushed through? Do you accept it will permit male predators access to women?

Why did the Committee reject advice on the effect on rape and DV abuse survivors from Womens Aid and Rape Crisis, in favour of an opinion by Mr Morton from the Scottish Tran Alliance? He suggests anxious women should be re-educated.
P27, 28, 29

Good luck Usui101, let us all know how you get on.

WoodPigeonInFlight Wed 22-Mar-17 18:26:08

I think *DJBaggy's" format is a bit more what you are after than my ramble so here's another try:

How will we measure things like equal pay, crimes etc against biological women if there is no legal category of women?

Does your MP believe that a transwoman is a woman and that there are no circumstances in which it should be legal to make the distinction?

Does your MP have any concerns about the increasing numbers of (increasingly) young people undergoing medical treatment which will leave them infertile?

Is it of concern that a large proportion of these young people are gay?

Might it be possible that other issues are being incorrectly diagnosed as "trans? What about schools where large groups of girls are simultaneously transing?

Did your MP ever take any foolish decisions as a young person which they now regret?

Will we all look back in 10 or 20 years time in horror at what is happening to young people now and that we let it happen?

How on earth was the funding for Martin Ponting's surgery agreed? Hasn't the NHS not got higher priorities like treating diseases?

And indeed, why is the NHS paying for trans treatment at all it is an "identity" issue and not an illness or disease, as opined by the W&E report? (I would really like to understand this conundrum).

Usui101 Wed 22-Mar-17 19:15:42

Thank you, I have already done significant research and thank you also for the one-liners keep them coming!

Thelilywhite Wed 22-Mar-17 19:48:39

Good luck Usui looking forward to hearing how you got on

SallyGinnamon Wed 22-Mar-17 19:53:14

Best of luck. Does anyone have a letter template I can send to my MP?

Thelilywhite Wed 22-Mar-17 20:04:25

you are welcome to use mine. Its on the letters to mp thread. The view on this board by those in the know though is that template letters are ignored so better to personalise. Mine is a mixture from gc fems websites posters on here, research and news links and my own thoughts.

PencilsInSpace Wed 22-Mar-17 20:06:19

If you can, practise what you want to say with someone before you go and get all the ranting out of your system before you go too. If you're like most of us on here, you'll have been totally supportive of trans only a short while ago. Think back to how you felt then and what sort of approaches came across as a reasonable and non-bigoted (yes, I know, I know ... <sigh>) Do your best to stay calm and reasonable. I'd avoid one-liners, you are there as an ordinary constituent who is worried, not an adversary.

'I am worried about this because ...' rather than, 'You are wrong about this because ...' IYSWIM.

I wouldn't take piles of articles, just one or two really strong ones. I think this one is great, it's simple and clear, well researched and non-ranty.

You can then follow up with an email. Thank him for his time (he can't hear you swearing while you're writing it wink) and give him some more links, tailored to whatever sticking points he has in understanding why this is an issue.

Good luck, and do report back!

Thelilywhite Wed 22-Mar-17 20:08:14

Here it is borders Just look on open letters to our mps thread and there are more.
I am writing to you regarding the review of the Gender Recognition Act, as Maria Millers bill will have its second reading in the House of Commons on 24th March.
In most instances I am happy to support the right of transgender people to live as they wish and I am aware of the challenges they face. However I am of the opinion, along with many other women, that our interests and those of girls are not being represented in the debate about transgender equality. Therefore I would like you, as my MP, to take a stance for your female constituents.
Firstly,regarding the matter of self-declaration to legally change gender. This is far removed from the current system when, if a person wishes to change their legal gender they must be over 18 and be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. They also have to have lived in their desired gender role for at least two years and intend to do so for life. Unfortunately the Committee’s report called for the removal of all three of these criteria.
It is this proposed self declaration that troubles me most ,as if this should become legally binding in law, anyone could become a member of the opposite sex, without the need for any form of social or medical transition.Therefore,any man could claim transgender status to gain access to sex-specific spaces and services, whether he genuinely thinks of himself as a woman or not and no matter how he dresses. This could include men who are attracted to women ( or girls), transwomen who have not had full surgery (currently about eighty percent) or men who are AGP. Questioning that persons motives would be classed as a hate crime under the Equalities Act 2010. Self declaration will put at risk women in prisons,psychiatric wards, hospitals, womens refuges and even competitive sport.
In certain situations society distinguishes between biological men and biological women for reasons of safety, dignity, privacy and fairness. Therefore, there are serious problems with biologically born men 'identifying' as women.
Redefining “sex” (a biological reality) to mean “gender identity” (a subjective feeling) makes men legally indistinguishable from women resulting in the independent legal existence of women becoming non-existent. So not only is the safety of women and girls compromised but male violence can be hidden by being attributed to women. Furthermore all kinds of discrimination against women and girls become invisible. The prison service is one area where this becomes very clear. Maria Miller’s recommendations would mean that any man convicted of rape has the right to be housed in a women’s prison just by self-identifying as a woman
It is clear to me that these proposals place female prisoners at an intolerable level of risk. Maria Miller has denied any clash of rights but there are already numerous examples of violent males being housed in female prisons, for example Lauren Jeska and possibly Lisa Hauxwell. I have included some links at the bottom of this letter which I feel are pertinent.
My second concern is around the increasing number of children and young adults seeking treatment for gender dysphoria. This is often based simply on a preference for toys, clothes and behaviours usually associated with members of the opposite sex and which are stereotypical. I am fearful about the effect this push towards the concept of ‘gender identity’ will have on childrens and young adults mental and physical health.
Particularly worrying is the prescribing of possibly dangerous puberty blockers and the encouraging of irreversible surgery to impressionable young people. Indeed there is a recent upward trend in teenage girls wishing to trans. Sadly there are many documented cases of young people who subsequently de-trans after regretting their decision.
The vulnerability of women occurs because of biology, not identity. This is why sex is a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act 2010. The implications of replacing biological sex with self-identified gender are far reaching. There must be careful consideration, including a full impact assessment before any changes are made. I am of the opinion that this has not happened. I am asking you to take these points into consideration and work to find a solution for trans-gender people that does not have a detrimental impact on the safety of women’s and girls, nor on their hard won achievements such as in sport and careers.
I hope I have been able to help you understand that women are not being transphobic when they raise concerns about these changes as Maria Miller implied, but have real and valid concerns.
Yours Sincerely

Thelilywhite Wed 22-Mar-17 20:10:04

oops some of the links seem to have gone. Will see if i can get them back

SallyGinnamon Wed 22-Mar-17 20:11:16

Fantastic lilywhite. I'll get it copied and emailed over.

Thelilywhite Wed 22-Mar-17 20:24:18

Cheers! Good luck borders A good tip from these threads is to send one snail mail as well. Iv done this for my third attempt as he didnt respond to the first two emailed!! I find it so heartening though to see all the action women on these threads are taking.

Stopmakingsense Wed 22-Mar-17 20:42:11

I think a good question is whether MPs have heard any evidence about this subject that has been provided by professionals who are sceptical of the huge rise in teenagers thinking they are transgender? I.e. That has not been provided by pro - transition organisations? Good luck

YorkshireTree Thu 23-Mar-17 12:51:08

Let us know how the meeting goes!

Usui101 Fri 24-Mar-17 10:47:09

Ok so having read tons of stuff, I have tried to condense a number of discussion points into 9 questions bearing in mind that there will be limited time thus:

Good afternoon , I would like to discuss the emails I sent to you about the Gender Identification (Protected Characteristic) Bill 2016 – 2017.
As a biological scientist I am very concerned about this Bill as it seems to invalidate my professional and academic career.

Questions and concerns
1.Did you ever take any foolish decisions as a young person which you now regret?
2.Do you believe that a transwoman is a woman even though it is medically impossible to alter chromosomes?
3.What will happen to men/women as protected characteristics if anyone can self identify as the opposite sex?
4.Are you as concerned as I am about in increasing numbers of young people simultaneously self identifying as trans after immersion in social media platforms such as tumblr, reddit, Steam etc? Further if these young people subsequently follow the pathways advocated by groups such as Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids these young people will end up on cross sex hormones, have SRS and become infertile – does that worry you?
5.Dr Polly Carmichael and the BPS advise caution with regard to accepting self identification of transgender, does Parliament intend to seek advice from professionals who are very concerned with the 1000% increase in self identifying people asking for referrals to GIC’s? Does Parliament intend to consult with biologists and geneticists who can provide empirical evidence of the biological basis of sex determination in humans?
6.Why is self identification being pushed through? Do you accept it will for example permit male predator’s access to women? Or allow males to access women only spaces such as rape crisis centres? Does this worry you?
7.How will we measure things like equal pay, crimes etc against biological women if there is no legal category of women?
8.How can the NHS afford to fund expensive surgery and life long medication of self identified transpeople when the NHS has a funding crisis and cannot for example afford to prescribe life saving drugs such as Kadcyla? Are identity issues a medical problem?
9.Will we all look back in 10 or 20 years time in horror at what is happening to young people now and wonder why it was allowed to happen? Will infertile transitioned people be allowed to claim compensation if they realise they were wrongly diagnosed and were pushed into transition by gender affirming advocates? Will Parliament seek to consult with the growing number of detransitioners to get a fuller understanding of the issues?

I think I will only get 10 minutes so have tried to highlight salient points - does this just about cover it?

venusinscorpio Fri 24-Mar-17 11:10:42

Can't wait to hear how this meeting goes. I am going to try to get one with mine. At least we have a bit longer now.

venusinscorpio Fri 24-Mar-17 11:13:48

I think that's great, btw. That should give the MP pause for thought. I imagine you might not get through them all. Maybe mention the report higher up and emphasise that they ignored advice and didn't consult women's groups.

Thelilywhite Fri 24-Mar-17 11:38:25

usui Great stuff- I agree with* venus* maybe mention report first as some other points stem from that. Good luck!

Usui101 Fri 24-Mar-17 12:25:18

I think having skimmed the report that whilst it might be useful to mention it, I think given the limited time I will have I cannot discuss it at length as there are far too many issues within it to have a meaningful discussion - just trying to keep it succinct xx

venusinscorpio Fri 24-Mar-17 12:30:00

It's more the point that they ignored advice. It's an important one.

venusinscorpio Fri 24-Mar-17 12:30:38

The report is the driver for this bill.

Usui101 Fri 24-Mar-17 15:27:32

I understand venus - it is going to be so difficult to address all my concerns within just a short space of time. Do you know if anyone has done a full scale critique of this report that I can subsequently forward to my MP after the meeting? I will ask if he has read it and understood the implications.

WobblyLegs5 Fri 24-Mar-17 15:41:17

I'd bring up the cps document. How worse will those become when the law is in place and schools 'must' teach this bs.

I'd bring up the dangers of sterilising young people, dangers of lupron on brain development, bones etc.

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