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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Finsbury Park murder (warning: distressing child death). THIS IS MALE VIOLENCE. Why is it not being named?

82 replies

BertieBotts · 19/03/2017 22:57

I'm so upset after reading the reports about this tonight. I won't link because it really is that awful, (they were just little babies :() but suffice to say, yet another attack on women and children, named as "domestic". Oh don't worry everyone, he wasn't a psycho or anything, it's just domestic! It's just fucking endemic, you mean. Because it's not like domestic magically means that each incident is isolated, except wait, no, that's literally how it is treated. ALL THE TIME.

Why is it only ever women's organisations who seem to care about these patterns? Why do we continue to glamourise control and emotional abuse in our media depictions of relationships when it's just the thin end of the wedge which ends in men killing women or men killing women's children in order to punish the woman? (Arguably worse). Why do we promote ultra-violent, misogynistic porn as something normal? Why do we laugh off male aggression?

Do we not get it? Do we not see the patterns? Because I see them ALL THE TIME and I don't know what to do about it, it really makes me despair.

OP posts:

Report

Babymamamama · 19/03/2017 23:00

Tragic. There are no words for this crime.

Xenophile · 19/03/2017 23:12

We're not allowed to see male violence for what it is because if we did then someone would have to do something about it.

BertieBotts · 19/03/2017 23:27

But why would that be so awful? I literally don't understand it.

I know, it's because people think of it as a problem that happens to other people, and that by their superior skills of man picking it won't happen to them :( but why don't other women matter? Why can't we believe the women who are telling us they (or their children) are in danger, for a start?

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Xenophile · 19/03/2017 23:31

It wouldn't be awful at all. It would be the best thing for society.

I've been told that the violence that was meted out to me was my fault for not picking well. Women matter, just not to the people who can do anything about it.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 19/03/2017 23:33

Because it's too easy to blame "hysterical" women for "over-reacting", isn't it. Far easier to wait until an actual crime has actually been committed and then react to it, than be proactive in any way to prevent it occurring in the first place.

Also disgusted.

WobblyLegs5 · 20/03/2017 09:34

I commented on the beauty & the beast thread in aibu, so many posters saying it's just a kids film don't read so much into it, my girls loved it & are strong wOman yadda

It's so inherent. If a boy is mean it's cause he likes you etc. It's never called what it is.

Annesmyth123 · 20/03/2017 09:39

Ive been told, here on mumsnet, that the violence meted out to me was because I didn't pick well. It was said that you don't get raped if you pick a decent man.

It's an all pervasive attitude.

teta · 20/03/2017 09:54

This has really upset me.Also looking at the face of the baby boy .He didn't look right .He looked very bruised and red-eyed.I have twins -boy/girl and there was a time in their life when one was subject to some bullying from someone in our house at the time.I stopped it but I still wonder how people can be so fundamentally evil.This is not 'domestic' but pure 'evil'.That poor poor mother.

BeyondUser24601 · 20/03/2017 13:39

You're preaching to the converted here Bertie :(
It's awful, it's just beyond words.

Laurapalmer90 · 21/03/2017 20:26

Just read about this. It's sickening. Those poor little children and I can't even imagine how the mother must be feeling right now.

I'm with you OP, I see patterns all the time. Male violence is so pervasive and insiduous in our culture and yet nothing ever seems to change. It all just seems to be put down to a "boys will be boys" attitude which is so damaging and wrong as well because it sends the message that men can somehow not control their violent urges.

Apparently the man has been charged with murder and attempted murder.

Laurapalmer90 · 21/03/2017 20:27

Not apparently, he's definitely been charged sorry.

Fairyflaps · 21/03/2017 20:37

That will be why there's no discussion of it- for this case at least.
Did you see the article by Caitlin Roper in Huffington Post earlier this month about male violence? So people are talking about it - just not enough - and men don't like talking about it

BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 21:07

Is there any update on the little girl? :(

YY Fairyflaps, I know, it's good some people are talking about it. I just wish it was more recognised.

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RedBugMug · 21/03/2017 21:14

yanbu
everytime I hear things like that in the new (much too often actually) I think about what has gone on before, what warning sign (that surely were there) have been missed, if she has tried to get away from his control, if the police have (again) belittled her...

HeyRoly · 21/03/2017 21:16

So what are the odds that he and the babies' mother were separated, and he did this to destroy her? That's always the story.

Fairyflaps · 21/03/2017 21:23

On the theme of how incidents of domestic homicide such as this one are always played down, with neighbours saying "what a lovely man he was" and very little mention of the victims, have a look at the twitter account @menwhokill The murder of Clodagh Hawe and her family in Ireland was a notable example of this.

This article which analyses reporting Sun vs Guardian on victim blaming is also interesting.

BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 21:47

Yes, Roly. One of the articles suggested that she may have been locked in the bathroom :(

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AssassinatedBeauty · 21/03/2017 21:53

I can't even start to imagine the horror of it or I'd be in tears as I sit here holding my 9 month old. Poor poor woman and children.

HeyRoly · 21/03/2017 21:55

Fucking hell. Fucking men. How come so many of them are capable of such brutality? I just can't understand it.

BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 22:16

Actually, I don't know that they were separated, as it mentions them both living in the flat, but he was certainly abusive and violent to have done this, so it's not hard to imagine it had been going on for some time.

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Fairyflaps · 21/03/2017 22:39

This sort of event usually follows a long period of domestic abuse and controlling behaviour. It is unlikely to come from nowhere.

For anyone who asks of a victim of domestic violence: 'Why doesn't she just leave?', here is your answer. Staying keeps you and your children alive.

BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 22:41

DV often escalates in pregnancy or after the birth of a child. And abusers are often keen on knocking you up

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graciestocksfield · 21/03/2017 22:46

I hope someone stamps on his head in prison and he dies slowly.

Xenophile · 21/03/2017 23:10

Absolutely Fairy. Plus we have the ridiculous notion that a "good enough woman would straighten him out".

In some ways it's a wonder any woman gathers the strength to leave.

teta · 22/03/2017 08:19

Some newspapers have said he was a very jealous person and also questioned whether he was the father.The children appeared very white whereas he was dark skinned.The mothers friend also said something was up and the mother was upset over something several hours earlier.

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