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Hadley Freeman: Identity is the issue of our age: so why can’t we talk more honestly about trans women?

(57 Posts)
IllBeBackmaybe Sat 18-Mar-17 12:33:25

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/18/identity-issue-our-age-talk-more-honestly-trans-women

Though some of you might be interested in this.

MorrisZapp Sat 18-Mar-17 12:37:18

Nice one Hadders. I'm glad to see this in the Guardian, hope it brings a tipping point in our 'liberal' press.

VeryBitchyRestingFace Sat 18-Mar-17 12:40:40

She's getting ripped all over Twitter.

I'd say something in agreement on social media but I'm frightened of my gender queer/trans colleagues getting a swatch of it. sad

GuardianLions Sat 18-Mar-17 12:59:52

Not happy she thinks it's okay to describe some life-long feminists as bigoted ol' bitches.

Is that the currency for the right to speak on these matters - distance yourself from and insult life-long feminists? tsk.

Datun Sat 18-Mar-17 13:21:27

GuardianLions

It's the trend. Even Jenni Murray distanced herself from Germaine Greer, despite both saying the identical thing except Greer's language was a little more salty.

I'm not happy that the price for speaking is to pretend you haven't picked a side, but I am happy that people are realising the possible existence of another side.

sticklebrix Sat 18-Mar-17 13:26:34

Good for her. That's a brave article in the current climate.

Why are no comments allowed, Guardian?

AwkwardSquad Sat 18-Mar-17 13:30:39

Good for Hadley. I really like Hadley so I was actually properly anxious that she'd been assimilated. Thank God it's at least a decent stab at a balanced view.

AwkwardSquad Sat 18-Mar-17 13:31:27

Properly anxious when I saw the headline and before I read the article, I mean.

egosumquisum1 Sat 18-Mar-17 13:32:12

On Radio 4’s PM last autumn – from the impartial BBC – a mother went unchallenged when she claimed she realised her three-year-old daughter was a trans boy when she asked for books about pirates instead of princesses. In another BBC interview last year, Eddie Izzard said he loves manicures because he’s trans

Liking manicures does not make you trans. It makes you someone who likes manicures. Eddie Izzard seems to have changed his view on who he is.

GuardianLions Sat 18-Mar-17 13:36:24

It's the trend. Even Jenni Murray distanced herself from Germaine Greer, despite both saying the identical thing

This trend is what it looks like to be divided and conquered...

AwkwardSquad Sat 18-Mar-17 13:41:12

Yes. Division increases infighting and weakens resistance. It's the classic tool of capitalism. Remember the left wing 'splitters' in the 60s (mocked by Monty Python in life of Brian)? And now, the scapegoating of disabled people?

AwkwardSquad Sat 18-Mar-17 13:42:27

Just dipping my toe back into Marxist feminism... I'm getting flashbacks to my misspent youth grin

DameDeDoubtance Sat 18-Mar-17 14:45:27

Paris Lees isn't happy about this, silly cis women shouldn't have an opinion about transwomen. Yet transwomen get to colonise and rename our sex, oh the irony.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 18-Mar-17 14:56:08

Hmm, Freeman seems to have changed her tune from previous articles on this subject.

I suspect she is quite happy to disregard the views of a late middle aged , white British woman but Adichie is far too cool (and I do not mean that in any way to be derogatory, I like her a lot) to be written off.

Elendon Sat 18-Mar-17 15:22:45

Adichie said “Acknowledging differences and being supportive are not mutually exclusive.”

She is right of course. Do we not agree?

GuardianLions Sat 18-Mar-17 15:49:40

She is right of course. Do we not agree?
Of course Elendon.
But to me it feels so much like being in a totalitarian state where saying something as mild and blindingly obvious as "Acknowledging differences and being supportive are not mutually exclusive.” is seen as controversial and has to be spoken in such hushed and gentle tones.

It's almost like saying "I don't hate or want anyone dead, but I personally feel that 1+1=2".
Only a completely crazy or comprehensively brainwashed person would disagree.

WankingMonkey Sat 18-Mar-17 16:45:46

On Radio 4’s PM last autumn – from the impartial BBC – a mother went unchallenged when she claimed she realised her three-year-old daughter was a trans boy when she asked for books about pirates instead of princesses

This is just sad. Why are parents committing their children to a lifetime of medical intervention and almost certain sterilization based on what toys they prefer. And this is apparently fine and it is Very Bad to challenge such ridiculous statements.

Kennington Sat 18-Mar-17 17:04:28

Hadley wrote an excellent balanced article but was twitchy enough not to go further.
The point is the current fashion is conflating transgender reasonable people with 'dress up' and worst of all children.
How children who are not fitting a Disney version of female or male are being considered as trans is spectacularly awful. It will be this that will turn the tide.
It is child abuse to even start a pre pubescent child on this path. And almost no one agrees with it but are generally too nervous to say.

Usui101 Sat 18-Mar-17 18:02:42

Posters on the Guardian twitter feed are being harrassed for supporting Hadley and writing biological truths, this has to stop - I am one of those currently being harrassed and have been been accused of "abuse"

ladyballs Sat 18-Mar-17 18:07:20

Paris Lees, for example, is a bellend.

Good article overall despite slagging off feminists and using cis to describe women.

GuardianLions Sat 18-Mar-17 18:17:03

Usui I'd love to help but I don't do twitter anymore, for my sanity.

TheBogQueen Sat 18-Mar-17 18:21:55

I thought it was tame stuff really.

Awful isn't it that people who write take opinion pieces such as hers then have to put up with being torn apart and have public/personal life trashed.

booox Sat 18-Mar-17 18:24:15

I'm glad it's not just me who questioned Eddie Izz- I was confused by what he said. To me he just likes manicures (^man-^icures!) and started his statement by saying long nails on a man would have been in the past used as a weapon to catch prey. Then equated it with the 'women' part of himself confused.

I'm woman who can't stand the sensory feeling of nail varnish on my fingers! (Toes are fine) (But rarely bother).

AgentCooper Sat 18-Mar-17 18:26:50

I thought this was a very sensible article. And I'm sorry to hear she's getting ripped on Twitter for it but sadly not surprised.

I do not want to be referred to as a 'pregnant person' to spare someone else's feelings. Me and DH were talking about this recently as he was driving me to the hospital for my second early scan for bleeding. Of course he finds it upsetting, emotional and stressful but he said 'I know it's nothing compared to what you're going through because it's your body' and of course he's right. That's just common sense.

I was thinking about how the 'pregnant person' issue basically comes down to whose feelings trump whose. And if get referred to in that way, a way that I am not happy with and feel diminishes what I'm going through, it means a transperson's feelings are deemed more important than mine. How is that OK?

booox Sat 18-Mar-17 18:27:14

thebog I do feel the tameness is purposeful, a gradual drip drip drip.

Plus it's 'hate speech'. And women attempting to hold up their little finger as Spartacus or a TERF risk it being mauled, so I don't blame her.

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