More madness

[MercyMyJewels]

twitter.com/daily_politics/status/842402344549593088

Sorry about another thread, there was nowhere to put this. But please do watch. But if you are in bed, beware, you will shout

[MercyMyJewels]

Although I do love Rod Liddle's reaction to City University's Journalism course banning The Sun, Mail & Express

[Datun]

At least people are questioning the censorship.

We're allowed to talk about being allowed to talk...

[MercyMyJewels]

Oh I know Datun. But that woman, Jesus, where are her brains?

[cuirderussie]

I never thought I'd see the day I'd be cheering on Rod Liddle . What a ridiculous idiotic woman.

[Datun]

She's an idiot. I was rather hoping they would give her just a little more rope. She was about 12 seconds away from complete incoherence.

[MercyMyJewels]

Some days I'm almost incoherent with rage with all this and sometimes, like tonight, I can just laugh a lot at the sheer ludicrousness of it all

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I almost felt sorry for Katie Whatever her name is (although her priggish sanctimony lost me) Andrew Neil and Rod Liddle are so good at demolishing nonsense, she really didn't stand a chance.

[cuirderussie]

She is not fit to wipe the shoes of Germaine Greer or Julie Bindel. What's her idea of feminism? Sucking up to men as far as I can see from her article history.

[Fairyflaps]

I found myself supporting Rod Liddell in an argument against a woman. The world has turned upside down.

[Usui101]

Tweet to Daily Politics - I have prefixed mine with #21CSuffragette :P

[TalkingintheDark]

I found myself supporting Rod Liddell in an argument against a woman. The world has turned upside down

My thoughts too Fairyflaps! And turns out Rod Liddle is an ardent defender of Julie Bindel - never saw that coming!!

My biggest lol was when Kaite said something like "the progressive movement that is now in full flower was only in bud then", talking about her time at uni 10 years ago... dear god... "progressive"... actually is it a lol or should I be crying at that?

Rod Liddle actually did a big piece on freedom of speech for the Sunday Times a while back now, and obvs brought up the whole transgender issue then; it was good to see it getting an airing in a national paper like that. But he also slagged off feminists for always having a "victim mentality", which is one reason I was particularly surprised to hear him championing Julie Bindel.

[Terfinator]

I agree, it was hilarious! She didn't make a single good point.

Also, you could tell she was losing it when she whipped out the "white men" line. I'm glad Liddle didn't rise to it though.

[Bambambini]

Jesus, how embarrassing for her. Liddell (and Neil) made her look so foolish.

[Bambambini]

Yip - "straight white males" but your trying to ban a working class lesbian woman? So what oppresed minority are you talking about then?

[Datun]

The oppressed minority of straight white males who say they are lesbians.

[Datun]

Plus they are banning newspapers on a journalist course. It's brainwashing!

[TheBogQueen]

I found it interesting that the student appealed to the consumer rights of students as a reason for 'no platforming' people such as Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel.

I've never seen this linked before - it's like they think they have bought an experience and that they should, as consumers, choose what ideas to take off the shelf. And reject other 'brands'

It kind of jaw dropping actually

[Datun]

TheBogQueen

It's the second time in recent weeks that I've seen that kind of link made. The fact that students are now 'buying' their education is affecting the way they want to study.

Long, boring lectures are being discarded in favour of more sound-biitey, punchy talks, for those with a short attention span, apparently.

I'm not sure how students are the ones who are able to drive this, though. But I believe it is indicative of them seeing themselves as customers.

I can't really understand how it has any traction in real life. You can't constantly leave a university and go to another one, like you might if you were disappointed with your preferred shoe shop.

[QuentinSummers]

I too was surprised (and pleased) to see Rod Liddell was such an ardent Binder supporter.
The whole thing made me feel old though. I could almost see teens cringing at the earnest old men discussing why debating things at university is so important. Because it isn't about that now. It's about buying a life experience.
Sad really, that paying for higher education has had such a big impact on what university does.

[PencilsInSpace]

I'm not sure how students are the ones who are able to drive this

Through the National Student Survey which feeds into the Teaching Excellence Framework, which the govt. use to rank universities. They were trying to link TEF ranking with universities' ability to raise tuition fees but the Lords just scuppered it.

[Datun]

pencils

This is new ground for me. So the student survey results go into the TEF? The TEF is graded - gold, silver, bronze? And universities wanted to adjust their fees according to that rating?

So it was in the universities' interest to make sure their provision met with as much student approval as possible, which would then lead them to be able to increase their fees?

Thereby basing their entire provision around what the students imagined they wanted? Cheap beer?

How did universities used to be ranked? Was it on results?

Sorry for all the questionmarks!

[PencilsInSpace]

Not sure there's a question on SU bar prices in the survey but yes, you've pretty much got it.

I haven't been near a uni since 2008. There used to be a thing called the Research Assessment Exercise where unis were graded on the quality of reseach. This was replaced by the Research Excellence Framework where research was measured more on its 'impact' (AKA ability to generate money). Then in 2015 the TEF was added.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Universities are ranked using various criteria (I've got a yr13, hence its a bit of a specialist subject at the moment). Anyone with an ounce of sense knows not to put too much weight on the metrics which reply on student feedback (often from ridiculously small samples), and to think about whether the level of critically applied by a student at a 'new' uni will be comparable to that of one at oxbridge who will be likely to expect and want more rigour. Yes, some students do want degrees that are demanding and require real work.... they're probably in the lecture theatres, labs and libraries and don't have time for all this stupidity.

[Datun]

Thanks pencils. And i'm in a similar situation to you errol. My son was glued to the student surveys as a means of deciding where to go, but I did know that this was not a good basis for his decision.

In the end he decided by studying what the courses offered and which ones best met his requirements.

But at least it has explained to me the connection between what students want and the way universities position themselves in the 'market'.

A place of learning being 'consumer driven' is all arse about face to me. Particularly when it leads to people like Katie Welsh endorsing an 'our way or the highway' approach.

[IAmAmy]

In the last week I've agreed with Brendan O'Neill and now Rod Liddle against a certain sect of feminists. I need a lie down.

Incredible that Katie Welsh can sit there spouting off about Julie Bindel being responsible for "hate speech" after all the latter has done for women. I'm astounded how many "liberal feminists" spend most of their time attacking women who've fought for so long against VAWG and calling people "transphobes".

Quentin for my part, I at least agreed with the men in this clip and hope my university experience is more as they spoke of than how Ms Welsh wants it to be, though I fear it'll be the latter