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Helen Lewis and Jess Philips in conversation. (london event)

(21 Posts)
humourless Thu 09-Mar-17 12:40:55

GinevraFanshawe Fri 10-Mar-17 13:52:24

I'm going, anyone else?

humourless Fri 10-Mar-17 14:34:20

I'm too far away.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sat 11-Mar-17 18:41:21

Just booked my ticket. Ginevra, do you want to meet up?

user1489215014 Sun 12-Mar-17 05:14:29

An opportunity to raise the trans debate? Event is after the scheduled 2nd reading of the Gender Identity (Protected Characteristics) Bill.
Would love to go but too far away.

(Sorry for rubbish username -don't seem to be able to change it. Aaaargh!)

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 12-Mar-17 07:55:10

User, have you tried on the desktop / mobile site? I think it's meant to be easier than the app.

Helen Lewis is gender-critical, I follow her on Twitter. Jess Philips won't be able to ignore her questions like she can ours. Hopefully the bill won't go through but the arguments will still need to be had.

NauticalDisaster Sun 12-Mar-17 07:59:21

I wish I could go! This will be interesting.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 12-Mar-17 10:11:04

I'll report back!

MercyMyJewels Sun 12-Mar-17 10:24:38


I have been a bit confused by Helen Lewis' stance on gender, She seems to fence sit quite a bit esp recently re Jenni Murray

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Sun 12-Mar-17 12:30:13

I think Helen Lewis's position is 'gender critical but scared to lose her job'.

DonkeySkin Sun 12-Mar-17 14:36:33

I have been a bit confused by Helen Lewis' stance on gender, She seems to fence sit quite a bit esp recently re Jenni Murray

Yes, she tweeted that 'The idea of a 'real woman' is a dead end. I'm sure some don't think I'm a real woman because I'm childless.' This is a dreadfully obtuse interpretation of Murray's article. Murray was making the connection (like de Beauvoir before her) between the fact of having female biology and the cultural oppression that women experience because of that, which includes enforced socialisation into femininity. She wasn't saying that socially stereotyped feminine sex roles are what women are. And it also seems to support the bizarre view of gender identitarians that because women have different experiences, 'woman' means nothing and everything and men can claim to be women if they like.

I think Helen Lewis's position is 'gender critical but scared to lose her job'.

Ha! That's probably the position of a lot of women in the media, who are just keeping silent about the whole thing. But Lewis's fence-sitting does irritate me, partly because she has a rather cowardly habit of caricaturing the views of gender-critical feminists in order to position her own as 'reasonable' and protect herself against trans backlash. Take the supercilious way she frames the concerns that many have about the rapidly expanding paediatric transition industry in this article about trans kids:

the most dogmatic parents argue that the trans activists are peddling a lie that you can transform, swanlike, from one sex to another – and fear that any child who so much as likes pink (if they’re a boy) or pirates (if they’re a girl) could be frogmarched down a path that ends in having their breasts or testicles removed.

It's really quite a distorted and demeaning way of representing people who are raising reasonable concerns about the multiple health risks (including sterilisation) of an unprecedented social and medical experiment on minors.

DonkeySkin Sun 12-Mar-17 15:36:25

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a Helen Lewis bashing thread, or discourage anyone from going to the event.

I have some frustration with her writing on trans issues, but I do appreciate her making space in the New Statesman for brilliant radical women like Sarah Ditum and Glosswitch. Undoubtedly she would have come under tremendous pressure from the trans lobby just for publishing them.

PhoenixJasmine Sun 12-Mar-17 18:27:52

Why do these things always start so bloody early! I'd love to go but can never guarantee getting into town after work until 8 or so. Lectures/talks etc always start at 6.30/7. Boo.

MercyMyJewels Sun 12-Mar-17 18:39:44

I didn't know that about Glosswitch and Sarah Ditum, thanks. I like Helen Lewis, it's just this topic that I find myself disappointed as she is otherwise quite fearless

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 12-Mar-17 19:20:17

She's tweeting in support of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie though, and she's shared Danielle Muscato's dick sucking tweet with Janice Turner & Rachel Johnson.

GinevraFanshawe Sun 12-Mar-17 19:21:40

I feel sorry for women in the public eye like that because she will definitely come under a ton of pressure if she speaks out about this.

GinevraFanshawe Sun 12-Mar-17 19:22:01

Empress, I've PMd you.

ChocChocPorridge Sun 12-Mar-17 19:26:09

I think Helen Lewis's position is 'gender critical but scared to lose her job'

The interviewer on the Julie Bindel Channel 4 short item was very direct about how scared women are to raise their head above the parapet on this. I was actually very impressed that she said it, it shows the strength of feeling that she felt she had to, even though she knows the flack it will attract.

MercyMyJewels Sun 12-Mar-17 19:27:54

I agree Ginerva. I'm sure she gets dog's abuse as it is. I don't want to be critical of her; I genuinely admire her and her work. I'm just so bloody frustrated

Lovelybreadbin Sun 12-Mar-17 19:30:58

I'd love to go to this, but won't be able. I'd be interested in anybody who can reporting back though!

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 12-Mar-17 19:35:57

Thanks Ginevra, I've replied.

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