Talk

Advanced search

Wow. I'm pro choice but what nonsense

(36 Posts)
DementedUnicorn Tue 21-Feb-17 14:36:22

https://www.facebook.com/TheHunRealIssues/posts/384293038617039:0

Soubriquet Tue 21-Feb-17 14:40:08

🙄 women get pregnant

You are a transman aka still a woman

MercyMyJewels Tue 21-Feb-17 15:14:38

Substitute 'woman' for 'sane person' and it makes much more sense

VestalVirgin Tue 21-Feb-17 16:13:12

Aaarrgh!

I just read this article: www.themarysue.com/oklahoma-dystopian-abortion-bill/

Most of the comments are sensible but then someone writes "This wouldn't happen if men could get pregnant" and immediately someone starts with "But men CAN get pregnant!"
It is derailing. Plain and obvious derailing of important discussions, with stupid, stupid, stupid nonsense. Everyone knows that exactly NO one doubted the ability of "transmen" to get pregnant.

Datun Tue 21-Feb-17 16:14:19

I like the comment that said 'so you had PIV sex and a pregnancy scare and that still didn't wake you up to the fact that biology matters?'

But is she right? In that because she is legally a man and the abortion rights refer to pregnant women, she is not eligible for one?

Talk about make a big fuss and change all the rules and then demand everyone play a different game because you don't like the rules you made!

VestalVirgin Tue 21-Feb-17 16:40:36

But is she right? In that because she is legally a man and the abortion rights refer to pregnant women, she is not eligible for one?

I very much doubt she would be denied an abortion by anyone who would perform an abortion on a woman.
Misogynists know she is a woman alright, and on this basis might deny her an abortion, but, not the same thing.

shins Tue 21-Feb-17 16:42:46

Demented, (you must be Irish?) I just posted about that funnily..it was linked to by Parents for Choice, which depressed me, as it now seems that all Irish pro-choice groups are infested with this bollox. What a ridiculous sideshow, it's not as if campaigners for abortion rights in Ireland don't already have our work cut out for us ffs. I will NEVER watch my pronouns and "Noah" can feck off, frankly.

DementedUnicorn Tue 21-Feb-17 17:22:11

I am indeed Shins. How this really important issue is being turned into a trans issue is absolutely horrendous angry

LassWiTheDelicateAir Tue 21-Feb-17 17:30:39

But is she right? In that because she is legally a man and the abortion rights refer to pregnant women, she is not eligible for one?

No of course not.

I'm familiar with the language in the UK Act. It makes it legal for a person in the right circumstances to carry out an abortion. It makes no difference what sex or gender the person performing the abortion is and it is the act itself which is legal or illegal.

shins Tue 21-Feb-17 17:39:06

Lass yes, it's just pointless grandstanding. Wanting to identify your way out of femaleness but still wanting to appropriate femake victimhood and tell other women that they have to change the way they speak and write about women's bodies, experiences and lives.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer Tue 21-Feb-17 17:40:21

wait a minute...

Substitute 'woman' for 'sane person' and it makes much more sense

Cant we use this for everything...i will happily forgo the word woman if i can have 'sane person' instead grin

Freshprincess Tue 21-Feb-17 18:04:26

Genuine question, I don't know the legalities. A Trans man is still legally a woman? In which case the law would still apply?

LassWiTheDelicateAir Tue 21-Feb-17 18:19:39

Freshprincess the law in the U.K , and I'm fairly certain Ireland , is not that it is legal for women to have abortions, but that in permitted circumstances doctors may legally perform abortions.

Datun Tue 21-Feb-17 18:23:45

Ah, ok Lass, I didn't understand your first post but I think it's clearer from your second post. The law doesn't specify the sex of the person who is having the abortion, is that right?

The part that is enshrined in law is about the legality of performing them, nothing to do with the person on whom they're being performed?

Datun Tue 21-Feb-17 18:24:54

Just making sure here - it's not about women's rights to abortion, it's about doctors rights to perform them? Does that mean that the doctor always has some kind of decision over it?

ChocChocPorridge Tue 21-Feb-17 18:27:37

We, as pro choice trans people, do not want to be forgotten as things progress and go forward, but we also acknowledge that the eighth amendment is a sexist law that stems from the way in which society views women and the desire it has to control their bodies

yes, it bloody is sexist, because, sex is what matters here, women are what matter here. It needs to remain sexist, because human females are the ones that get pregnant. Transmen, even if legally men, are still of the female sex, and so this law needs to cover them. It's trans activists, including in this case Noah, that have brought this about by muddying what 'woman' means. If it means 'adult, human female' Noah is all good, and obviously covered by the law. If it means 'anyone who feels like saying they're a woman today' then you have a bit of an issue.

The issue is ENTIRELY self-inflicted though, through trans campaigning to make sex == gender.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Tue 21-Feb-17 19:19:44

Just making sure here - it's not about women's rights to abortion, it's about doctors rights to perform them? Does that mean that the doctor always has some kind of decision over it?

It makes it legal for a doctor to perform an abortion. That means self-administered abortions are illegal in the U.K.Yes the doctor has a say in theory as far as I am aware outwith NI UK doctors will not refuse (other than on religious beliefs and if they do so they must refer the patient to another doctor) I've never had an abortion, I don't know anyone in the U.K who has been refused an abortion.

The law doesn't specify the sex of the person who is having the abortion, is that right?

The point of the UK law in 1967 was to decriminalise doctors if they performed an abortion.

It is still illegal to self abort or to go to a back street abortionist. A vet for example could perform an abortion but it would be illegal.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Tue 21-Feb-17 19:34:16

BTW everything I have said relates to UK law. Ireland permits abortion to save the life of a pregnant women.

The UK law primarily permits the termination of a pregnancy. It does refer to pregnant woman (sorry I thought the focus was on the prrgnsncy) as well but there is no way a doctor would refuse if it were otherwise legal.There is no definition of "pregnant woman" I think most doctors could safely say a person presenting with an impregnated womb is a pregnant woman.

PencilsInSpace Tue 21-Feb-17 19:36:36

'me me me me me ... this is not to distract from what the majority of us would view as, primarily, a women’s issue, but me me me me me'

thecraftyfox Tue 21-Feb-17 19:38:41

The 1967 Abortion Act permits doctors in certain circumstances to carry out abortions on pregnant women. The word woman features 11 times. And that's because men cannot get pregnant.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/87

LassWiTheDelicateAir Tue 21-Feb-17 20:16:26

Yes you are right I focused on the fact it allows doctors to carry out terminations.

shins Tue 21-Feb-17 20:18:59

My mind is boggled by the notion that...you're a woman having sex wth a be-penised man and must therefore worry about getting pregnant.. so how do you identify as a man? What is male about that?

It's obvious that the people commenting as well as "Noah" are very young and have little experience of life outside the student union. Hard to point that out without sounding like a patronising old cow though! grin

Datun Tue 21-Feb-17 20:28:51

The 1967 Abortion Act permits doctors in certain circumstances to carry out abortions on pregnant women. The word woman features 11 times. And that's because men cannot get pregnant.

And therein lies his complaint. Talk about self obsessed.

I'll be utterly furious if they change the law on that basis. Just make a fucking exception and leave the law as it is.

Lighthouser Tue 21-Feb-17 21:53:50

Noah seems perfectly reasonable to me. Some of the comments here are pretty bigoted, I'm disgusted.

Interesting read: www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/when-it-comes-to-transgender-rights-there-s-nothing-feminist-about-being-a-bigot-a6843811.html%3Famp?client=ms-android-fairphone

Geist Tue 21-Feb-17 22:02:21

Shins, I recognise some commenting through a different group and the constant trans issues were the reason I left. I saw people jumped upon if the party line was not toed even unintentionally; aggressively accused of being trans exclusionary and to check their cis priviledge.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now