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Arkansas abortion law

(14 Posts)
MercyMyJewels Sun 05-Feb-17 11:54:37

www.independent.co.uk/voices/arkansas-act-45-abortion-rights-pro-choice-trump-a7562806.html

OMG - this really is the start of it. I am utterly horrified. My DH told me about this yesterday and I thought it must be fake news on twitter. But i's not

scallopsrgreat Sun 05-Feb-17 12:06:29

War on women. Women's rights being under constant threat.

There is an appeal about this I believe but it seems to be centered around women who are raped by a family member not having to effectively ask permission from that man to terminate. Not because a woman shouldn't have defer to their husband (or parents) because they are full human beings in their own right. When we say men don't view us as full human beings, this is exactly what we mean.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog Sun 05-Feb-17 12:18:28

It is horrific. Hopefully as things stand it will be overturned by Roe vs Wade - but only if the Democrats manage to filibuster Gorusch.

We need to be absolutely clear on just how far the right are going to go in attacking women's rights - it's not just abortion, I think we'll see concerted attacks on contraception too. This is what I wrote on one of the Trump threads on the subject of Gorusch being put forward for the supreme court:

The whole issue of religious freedom seems to be based on a totally screwed up (and totalitarian) misunderstanding of what is (or should) be meant by religious freedom.

In particular, I really can't get my head round the Holly Lobby ruling. Gorusch's position was based on religious freedom. Now abortion I just about get - there are religious people who genuinely believe abortion is murder (outnumbered I suspect by those who object because they are common or garden misogynists whose actual motivation is to restrict women's freedom). However, if you think that abortion is murder I can see why you would believe being forced to fund abortion was tantamount to being forced to be an accessory to murder. I don't agree but at least I can see the argument.

But with contraception as far as I know it's a private matter for the individual Catholic, between her and her confessor. Catholics are under no obligation to prevent other Catholics from using contraception, and certainly not under an obligation to stop non Catholics using contraception. It therefore isn't the company's business what particular medical services the individual employee chooses to avail themselves of, any more than a Teetotal managing director can tell an employee not to spend their salary on alcohol.

Gorusch's position therefore looks not like a defence of religious freedom but instead like a licence for the rich and powerful to impose their religious beliefs on the poor and vulnerable - the direct opposite of the intention of the constitution, surely (which was written by people fleeing religious persecution in their home countries, persecution carried out by governments/monarchs).

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog Sun 05-Feb-17 13:57:34

Have you read the BTL comments, Mercy (warning - will require a strong stomach)?

On the Trump threads, we were talking about astroturfing. The article you link to has some of the scariest below the line comments I've ever seen.

This is a British newspaper, and its comments section has been totally taken over by pro-forced-birth nutters. I have never seen such a concentration of them in one place. It's so out-of-kilter with general public opinion in the UK that I can't believe it's not a concerted cyber attack.

SenseiWoo Sun 05-Feb-17 14:00:37

Arkansas is not the first state to bring in such provisions. They have all been struck down as unconstitutional, I think at state level. So, while the legislative intent is horrifying, the outcome probably won't be.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog Sun 05-Feb-17 14:04:48

Except, Sensei, that one of Trump's stated campaign aims was to nominate supreme court judges with the express intention of overturning Roe vs. Wade. The current rash of restrictive state laws may well come before a supreme court with Gorusch on it, prepared to try to overturn it. If Ruth Bader Ginsburg dies in the next few years (she's 84, 85?) Trump will get a 6 to 3 majority, with 2 judges of his own choosing who will presumably be so far right you'll need an inspector gadge right arm to even point them out in a line up.

MercyMyJewels Sun 05-Feb-17 14:50:13

No I agree M0stly.
I missed the comments about it on the Trump thread. It's moving so fast it's hard to keep up. Will search for it now

I'm struggling with this new reality. I have always followed politics but I am genuinely fearful for the future now in a way I have never felt before

DeviTheGaelet Sun 05-Feb-17 16:18:39

That is horrific and the comments are worse.
So depressing.

Xenophile Sun 05-Feb-17 16:48:44

That I think this new legislation is vile goes without saying, but the BTL on that is something truly special.

There is one bloke who seems to be seriously positing that this is a good thing because we're heading for a more paternalistic society where we take difficult decisions away from women.

There's not enough facepalm in the world.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog Sun 05-Feb-17 17:08:09

Yay, just remembered I have an account with the Windy - have posted the following:

Given that one in three women in the UK have had abortions, and that many men seem fully supportive of women having the right to determine what happens to their own bodies, am I alone in being puzzled by the complete whitewash job of pro-forced-birth comments below the line here? Anyone would think there was some sort of deliberate astroturfing campaign going on here.

Don't like abortion? Simple, don't have one. And, if you're a man who doesn't like abortion, don't have sex with a woman unless you've had a vasectomy. (Newsflash - contraception fails sometimes, through no fault of the user).

Oh, and if you're really keen on reducing the abortion rate world wide, get out there campaigning for free contraception and thorough, sensitive sex education in schools. The World Health Organisation's figures show this is the best way to reduce the number of abortions. All making it illegal does is to drive up the number of maternal deaths.

scallopsrgreat Sun 05-Feb-17 20:00:25

But women need a guiding hand with their decisions Xeno. And men are here to give us that. Honestly woman, your expectations Are. Just. Too. High.

There are plenty of male posters even on MN, when you scratch beneath the surface (or not in some cases) can't quite trust women to run their own lives and make their own decisions. There are abusive men described all across the relationships board who want to control women. These men BTL are at the extreme end of the scale in that they don't couch their language (yeah thanks for that Trump) but we regularly have male posters arguing that they should have a say in whether a woman carries or terminates a pregnancy.

scallopsrgreat Sun 05-Feb-17 20:00:58

P.S. What's the Trump thread?

DeviTheGaelet Sun 05-Feb-17 20:18:51

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2846025-Trump-thread-continued-Who-rules-the-USA-Vote-now?msgid=66747897#66747897

scallopsrgreat Mon 06-Feb-17 08:00:03

Thanks Devi smile

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