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Ahhhhg, THAT Steve Bell cartoon

(84 Posts)
ethelb Sat 28-Jan-17 17:55:32

I don't know if there has been a thread about this and the pure misogyny in it:

Yes there was homophobic satire around Blair and Bush (and Trump and Putin) but all of those implied a degree of consent to the situation.

Theresa May is not the first and won't be the last PM to have her dealings with US foreign policy criticised. And with good reason.

But for some reason, this particular Prime Minister gets anal rape jokes 6 months into her premiership? And my Facebook is full of the menz who think it is all totes hilare, and are mortally wounded if anyone suggests it is misogynistic.

A week after the women's march people. A fucking week!

ITCouldBeWorse Sat 28-Jan-17 17:59:58

I am normally one to shout when I see 'humour' like this, but I think it simply would have been a different variant had the pm been male. You know a bend over and take it sort of thing, with it being a reference to power.

Really not remotely amusing though.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 28-Jan-17 18:18:06

It would be a variant but that cartoon is vile. Theresa May has had one meeting. So far all she has said or done was make polite noises which is all she should be doing at this stage.

ethelb Sat 28-Jan-17 18:25:06

But that doesn't happen does it ItCouldBeWorse. The satire of male leaders involves images of them consensually snogging. It is potentially homophobic to laugh at the implication they are 'gay' but that is it.

This involves an image of a woman being raped. It is a whole other level that just doesn't happen to men.

The equivalent would be an image of Nigel Farage being forced to give Trump a blowjob. But that hasn't happened yet. And won't. So this cartoon is misogynistic.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 28-Jan-17 18:33:19

I am sure there were similar cartoons of Bush/Blair.

The cartoon is utterly vile. I don't think you can say it depicts a rape but it is still utterly vile. As are all the Guardian lefty comments who can't see past the fact it is ridiculing and demeaning a Conservative PM ; so that's all right then.

QueenOfTheSardines Sat 28-Jan-17 18:34:09

All I can see is some feet?

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 28-Jan-17 18:39:08

The feet are in the position they would be in if they were having sex; probably anal sex.

MephistophelesApprentice Sat 28-Jan-17 18:43:47

That cartoon made me very uncomfortable. I think it was over the line.

QueenOfTheSardines Sat 28-Jan-17 18:45:23

So the cartoon is just the feet?

I thought I saw something on Facebook the other day and it had whole bodies but I scrolled past. I mean, it can't just be the feet :/ Is there another one / have they cropped all the images?

ethelb Sat 28-Jan-17 18:48:13

If someone can find me an example of satire that implies rape between two male leaders in the mainstream UK press, then fine. This isn't misogynistic.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 28-Jan-17 18:51:53

Just the feet. Its defence is it is supposed to be a parody of the cartoon below. Queen it is obvious what they are supposed to be doing.

fashionable contrasts gillray - Google Search

Somerville Sat 28-Jan-17 18:52:25

Yes, it's incredibly misogynistic.

No real surprise from the Guardian lately.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 28-Jan-17 18:53:50

Of course it is misogynistic. You can't tell if it is depicting a rape . It doesn't matter - it's still misogynistic and offensive.

GunnyHighway Sat 28-Jan-17 19:00:27

I think you are all over thinking this. This has nothing to do with the sex but more about America fucking the UK.

ethelb Sat 28-Jan-17 19:06:55

Gunny which Steve Bell/The Guardian has decided to portray via the image of a woman being raped by a man who has faced sexual assault accusations.

I don't remember that happening to Blair.

Xenophile Sat 28-Jan-17 19:23:05

It's not unlike this one.

So nice to know that Trump's admission of sexual assault is providing grist for cartoonist's pens.

ethelb Sat 28-Jan-17 19:32:05

I hated that one as well Xenophile. But at least there isn't a real human woman who has dared to be powerful, that we are being encouraged to laugh at and mock in that one.

Xenophile Sat 28-Jan-17 20:14:13

I totally get you. Same ol, same ol.

museumum Sat 28-Jan-17 20:18:21

It's a vile cartoon I agree but I totally didn't read it as rape. At all. Never occurred to me that it was rape rather than consensual (albeit submissive).

ethelb Sat 28-Jan-17 21:55:43

museumum But in a cartoon as blunt as this, isn't there a fairly fine line between submissive and coersive?

I think it is bonkers to suggest that the same would happen to a man in the same position. It never has and it is unliky to ever happen.

Jon Ronson, though I can't stand the man, did some quite interesting research for 'So you have been publically shamed' where public shaming of men generally involves the online mob saying 'I'm going to get you fired' whereas with women people say 'I'm going to rape you' or 'I hope you get raped.

He (and the people he consults) hypothesise this is because as a society we talk about female rape but not about male rape. That doesn't mean male rape doesn't happen but we don't talk about it. Whether we are being right on or satirical, we just don't.

Men are threatened with 'being fired' because of the patriarchal view that men should provide and being fired is shameful.

So male leaders are threatened with not being re-elected, and female leaders are threatened with being raped in political discourse. And no one ever questions this.

AskBasil Sat 28-Jan-17 22:43:57

I didn't necessarily see it as rape. Or anal sex. Just sex in that position.

But I think that's what's quite telling about it, that heterosexual sex in patriarchy, is framed as so close to rape, that we can't tell the difference in a cartoon as to whether it's consensual sex or rape.

It's obviously saying that Britain is being fucked by America. And fucking in this context, is framed as the one being fucked - women - are being done something bad too. While the one fucking - men - are dominant and powerful.

Radical feminists are called man-hating and anti-sex, when they critique hetero-normative sexual behaviour and discuss the way it is framed in patriarchy as woman=submissive, man=dominant. But male cartoonists tap into this and everyone immediately knows what they mean, gets the joke and don't for one moment, think the cartoonist is a man-hater.

msanonymouse Sat 28-Jan-17 22:54:39

I don't know. May's sycophancy towards Trump has been nothing short of nauseating. Finding it hard to muster any sympathy for a woman who is so happy to disregard Trump's contempt for her fellow kind. Her demeanour suggested affinity rather than reluctant realpolitik.

At the end of the day she's another nasty right wing Tory. Sod her.

M0stlyHet Sat 28-Jan-17 23:00:15

I found it deeply shocking, one of the most shocking cartoons I've seen for a long time - but that, I presume, was the intention. Basically it was "the US giving it to Britain up the arse" (yes, the positioning of the feet did immediately make me think anal sex). However, I take it that the whole point of the cartoon was to tap into a whole lot of terrifying associations just to make clear how politically unacceptable the situation was. And following a couple of days when May has just sold 100 million quid's worth of arms to Erdogan, and refused to condemn Trump's EO banning people from 7 Middle East countries from the US, actually, shocking as it is as an image, it is a highly effective piece of political satire. It is meant to shock, it does shock, because we should be shocked.

msanonymouse Sat 28-Jan-17 23:04:40

Well put Mostly. I'd forgotten about Erdogan. If anything that's worse.

Itwasthenandstillis Sat 28-Jan-17 23:04:45

I have this picture in my mind of TM and him holding hands. Sorry but what the F was that about? Following the women's march she holds his hand?!? This cartoon may have overstepped, and i understand that it could be intetepreted as misoginistic but it is not what first came to mind for me. Seeing the picure of the pm of the UK holding hands with him made me feel much worse.

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