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Hi, can anyone help me to define this sexual encounter please?

(53 Posts)
thatshowasuperherolearnstofly Thu 26-Jan-17 18:38:46

Two friends, male and female go out for a drink as they have done many times in the past.

Female gets drunk much more quickly than usual, due to medical issue.

Female says she needs to get the train home. Male pretends to phone national rail enquiries and says all trains cancelled so she'll have to stay at his house.

Female checks herself and trains are running, her friend lied about them being cancelled.

It is late and the journey home will take over an hour and she will be on her own. Male convinces female to have another drink and get the last train home. Female accepts of her own free will.

Male then spends some time convincing female to just come back to his house and sleep in his spare room.

Female, very drunk at this point and worried about long journey home agrees.

On way back to males house in taxi male kisses female. Female responds. Female has sex with male using a condom, she is enthusiastic and wants to do this.

Female then tries to go to sleep. Male wants to have sex again. Male says there are no condoms. Female doesn't want to have unprotected sex, no discussion takes place as male having sex with female before she realises what he is doing (bear in mind she is still very drunk).

Once this has finished female starts falling asleep. Male turns female over and when she asks what he's doing he replies: "going again" to which she responds with a clear no. Male leaves female alone.

Female falls asleep/passes out. What happens next is unknown.

Just wondered how others would define this situation?

228agreenend Thu 26-Jan-17 18:44:16

First encounter - consent.

Other encounters - rape.

Was her drink spiked with the date rape date?

Hope she (you?) are okay.

thatshowasuperherolearnstofly Thu 26-Jan-17 18:49:46

Thanks 228.

Drink not spiked.

Yes, ok.

GelfBride Thu 26-Jan-17 18:51:25

I would say the male was a liar regarding the train thing which may make the rape (that the second encounter definitely was) look premeditated .

Isadora2007 Thu 26-Jan-17 18:51:58

Of course second time was rape. But why did she carry on drinking knowing he had lied about the trains etc? Weird "friendship" ?

thatshowasuperherolearnstofly Thu 26-Jan-17 18:56:16

Because she was a drunken slag who was asking for it, Isadora?

Because her judgement was off because she was drunk and she thought he was joking (having known him for 6 years and him never having pulled anything like it before).

picklemepopcorn Thu 26-Jan-17 18:56:23

Premeditated rape. Female may not have had capacity to consent, regardless of how enthusiastic she was at the time. Male was coercive. Male is a jerk, not a friend.

So sorry flowers

Practicalities, does she have support? Morning after pill? Wish to get checked over at hospital?

picklemepopcorn Thu 26-Jan-17 18:58:55

With every drink, the capacity to make a sensible decision is reduced. So after a couple, we are likely to make mistakes like having a couple more. That doesn't mean we should never ever have any. Though for a couple of years I made that choice as I was too afraid to do otherwise.

Isadora2007 Thu 26-Jan-17 19:01:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ImperialBlether Thu 26-Jan-17 19:07:12

Isadora, do you think someone who's been raped needs to hear you talk like that to her?

AnyFucker Thu 26-Jan-17 19:10:13

I would define all of that as coerced sex ie. Rape

PovertyPain Thu 26-Jan-17 19:12:12

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lovemusic33 Thu 26-Jan-17 19:13:33

It's clearly rape but sadly if she/you reported it chances are you would get nowhere with it sad, I know from expereance.

AssassinatedBeauty Thu 26-Jan-17 19:14:59

Isadora, wtf?

AboutTimeIsh Thu 26-Jan-17 19:21:48

I've been there too OP.

And I didn't report it. Because I was drunk. Because I'd kissed him once before. Because he was a friend. And because I thought everyone would believe him, not me. I even got the train to work with the bastard in the morning. Hit me around lunchtime what had happened. He is a prominent member of my local community and i unfortunately bump into him often. I sometimes wonder if he knows why I cut him out of my life completely, or if he even thinks what he did was rape. I suspect not.

(I NC often- worried about identification- so probably will afain after this post- but you/ she has all my empathy flowers)

0phelia Thu 26-Jan-17 19:23:30

Come off it.

AnyFucker Thu 26-Jan-17 19:25:27

Come off what ?

thatshowasuperherolearnstofly Thu 26-Jan-17 19:25:32

No intention of reporting.

Asking because recent memories of child sexual abuse have x

thatshowasuperherolearnstofly Thu 26-Jan-17 19:27:35

Not reporting. It's not about that.

It's because recent memories of child sexual abuse have come to light.

Female in question was convinced she had never been the victim of any kind of sexual assault, so was surprised by these memories.

So went through previous memories of sexual encounters that had been filed away as not traumatic. And found this one.

Therefore interested in other people opinions as to how they would file it away.

littleoysterslittleoysters Thu 26-Jan-17 19:37:22

Twice in my life in my early 20s I went to bed willingly with men and gave them oral sex. First time I made it clear I didn't want to have sex but passed out drunk naked and woke up to find the bloke having sex with me. I just went with it. The second time I didn't say no to anything but just passed out and when I woke up when the bloke entered me I shouted "no" - the bloke then apologised and removed himself and checked I was okay.

It wasn't until doing my DV training as part of my career that I realised that both these encounters could be described as rape. Although I am happily married and I don't feel that at the time or really since these encounters have affected me I am going to educate my children well so that my daughter doesn't get as bladdered as me and allow herself to get into a situation she has trouble stopping and that my son doesn't have sex with women who can't CLEARLY consent.
I feel a bit sad for the early 20s me but it all worked out.

RustyPaperclip Thu 26-Jan-17 19:38:57

Seriously Isadora? How on earth did you think your comments would be appropriate on such a thread. I'm sorry for what you are dealing with OP

littleoysterslittleoysters Thu 26-Jan-17 19:40:04

Sorry anyway to answer your question I say yes it was rape and I hope it hasn't affected you badly.

picklemepopcorn Thu 26-Jan-17 19:56:54

That reevaluation of incidents we have accepted is a really interesting process. I hope it fuels some rage in her, to allow her the energy to get through this.

M0stlyHet Thu 26-Jan-17 20:01:35

Makes perfect sense, OP. I have a friend who I think was sexually abused as a child (never really got to the bottom of what went on). We were chatting about sex one day and she mentioned she'd had over 100 sexual partners by the age of 21 and that sometimes "she'd said yes just because it seemed easier than saying no." I've often wondered how many of those encounters were in fact rape, just that her early sexual abuse left her feeling that she wasn't allowed to say no. flowers for you and the woman you're talking about.

thatshowasuperherolearnstofly Thu 26-Jan-17 20:03:58

Thanks. It is really helpful to hear other people's opinions.

Isadora - in your comment that got deleted you asked why on earth I wanted to hear how other people would define this.

I will tell you why.

Because I have a long history of burying traumatic experiences or reframing them to convince myself that they weren't damaging.

Because I have recently been experiencing flashbacks to being abused as a child.

Because I constantly question whether these memories are true.

Because I have always told myself that I've never been raped or sexually assaulted I decided to go through other experiences and see if there was anything else in there that I may have buried in a similar way to my memories of childhood abuse.

So it is very important to me to understand how other people view this experience. Because until this week it had been filed away as "that night I got drunk with P and we had sex after he made a joke about the trains being cancelled."

Because that's how my mind files away this stuff.

And to others who asked how I am - I am fine, thank you. This doesn't bother me really (it was over 12 years ago).

I am way my bothered by memories of my own brother sticking his cock into me when I was 10, tucked innocently up in my own bed and neither drunk nor a slag.

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