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Transwoman found dead in prison.

(55 Posts)
TheCunkOfPhilomena Thu 05-Jan-17 19:12:11

Am I alone in worrying that this may lead to more people identifying as women being allowed access to women's prisons as a result of this?

The statistics of suicide in prison are soaring, this is obviously an issue that needs addressing, but I can't help but fear that Swift's death will be used by trans lobbyists to endanger women only safe spaces.

Link for more info and see how it is already being spun by the MSM

chickendrizzlecake Thu 05-Jan-17 19:37:09

I saw the Guardian article on this and they said Swift had requested to be transferred to an annexe where there were other trans prisoners, rather than to a women's prison.

But yes, I agree it is worrying that it could be spun by those who would support that demand.

AmoIsNoLongerEmo Thu 05-Jan-17 19:43:33

Trans women are women tho and should not be in men's prisons. They are not going to put a man that has never lived as a woman, expressed wanting to transition, or undergone a ton of therapy into a women's prison. Trans women are more likely to have harm done to them, then them to pose a threat to women.

Mrsmorton Thu 05-Jan-17 19:44:21

But they aren't women. That is a scientific fact.

glenthebattleostrich Thu 05-Jan-17 19:46:12

Transwomen aren't women, they are transwomen.

There should be a unit for trans prisoners.

Women in prison are more likely to have been victims of abuse it's not right that they should be forced to share space with a male bodied person, no matter how they identify.

SpeakNoWords Thu 05-Jan-17 19:49:26

I think provision for transwomen in men's prisons definitely needs to be improved so they are treated with as much respect and dignity as other prisoners.

MycatsaPirate Thu 05-Jan-17 19:50:11

Swift was still male though. Had not had any prescribed hormones (had been using unprescribed drugs which she/he stopped using on entering prison) and had had no surgery.

Living as a woman with full male genitalia does not make you trans. It makes you a man dressed as a woman.

I fully support a trans person who has gone through a full sex change to stay in the prison relating to their new gender. But as things look to be heading to a point where anyone can claim to be trans and ask to be in a woman's prison then it's definitely open to abuse.

Swift took her/his own life presumably and was also still on remand. As they were also up on an attempted murder charge (the victim later died) then I don't think a women's prison was the right place for him/her.

This is such a grey area and anyone who even remotely suggests that this man could have been a threat to women in a women's prison will be shot down in flames by others who claim that 'we don't understand what it's like to live in the wrong body' Or something. Well no, I don't. But I also think it's wrong to have operating male genitalia living in a women's prison.

thecraftyfox Thu 05-Jan-17 19:50:26

Swift didn't have a grc and hadn't officially changed name if they were charged under a male name. Very little therapy needed to transition to be honest, one doc will pretty much prescribe online.

DeviTheGaelet Thu 05-Jan-17 20:11:25

It's such crap. Suicide in prisons is a massive issue and barely discussed. Except for transgender prisoners when it's reported as some kind of tragedy. It's so unfair on all the non-trans prisoners who commit suicide.

DeviTheGaelet Thu 05-Jan-17 20:57:08

Just Googled and when this person was arrested for the offence, they were using a male name and identifying as a male. This was less than 2 months ago.
Yet putting him in a male prison is being played as a tragedy. WTF.
www.thestar.co.uk/news/man-charged-with-attempted-murder-over-doncaster-stabbing-1-8243598

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 21:06:43

I thought it was interesting the person was reported to be a transwoman in this case by the BBC, unlike the Claire Darbyshire case. Did Claire Darbyshire have a GRC?

Xenophile Thu 05-Jan-17 21:11:59

When you have a situation where 2 people a week commit suicide in prison every week, the first reaction to this needs to be "how do we improve conditions within the prison estate?" and not "well this particular violent criminal shouldn't have been placed in the male estate because they wore a frock".

The prison service is in crisis. People only seem to give a shit about it when it's a MtT who's fate is being decided and it makes me sick.

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 21:18:22

There are stats on Inquest's site on prison deaths, with a separate split on some characteristics including BME, young offenders and women. There were over 100 prison suicides ("self-inflicted") last year - very few of them women. Its not clear which category trans are counted in, but I am assuming in the gender they've transitioned to if they have a GRC. How come more isn't made of all those other deaths? There are clearly some very troubled, vulnerable people in prisons who are not being adequately supported. Its also another area where a small number of transwomen's deaths could quickly distort the stats.

Mrsmorton Thu 05-Jan-17 21:18:33

Not really xenophile Suicide amongst men is 3 times that of suicide amongst women. The sex of the person is clearly relevant here? Yes conditions need to be improved, that's apparent regardless of chromosomes.

This mustn't be reported as a woman committing suicide though, to do so is a disservice to both sexes.

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 21:19:51

Xposted with Xeno

Queenie04 Thu 05-Jan-17 21:20:43

There should be a specific, safe, and separate unit for trans people. They at are not women so placing them in a women's unit may place women at risk

Xenophile Thu 05-Jan-17 21:23:29

I agree that this wasn't a female suicide. I agree that this shouldn't be reported as if it were. I'm not sure how I suggested otherwise, but I apologise if that's how it came across.

Sadly, suicide rates among women are rising at an alarming rate.

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 21:27:04

Actually, whilst the absolute numbers for women are much smaller, it is probably much higher relative to the size of the much smaller female prison population.

Mrsmorton Thu 05-Jan-17 21:48:02

illegitimate surely that's why the accurate reporting of sex is so important? If we don't know what's being counted, we can't count it...

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 21:50:20

You'll get no argument from me about recording stats in a meaningful way, otherwise we might as well not bother.

Yoarchie Thu 05-Jan-17 21:56:42

Poor trans woman sad. Not sure who she is as haven't seen this in the news. It's disgraceful that there are not safe units specifically for transwomen.

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 21:57:35

Maybe reserve some sympathy for the victim they murdered too?

Yoarchie Thu 05-Jan-17 21:58:31

I wasn't aware they murdered someone

illegitimateMortificadospawn Thu 05-Jan-17 22:00:48

They were on remand for attempted murder, but the charge was under review as their victim recently died in hospital as a result of their injuries.

Bejazzled Thu 05-Jan-17 22:05:27

Was there an accomplice? I just read he had stabbed someone aged 26 in November who has now died from his injuries. It's on the BBC website.

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