Women and Christmas

[Smartleatherbag]

Apologies if this has been done to death, but may I have a short rant with the like minded?
Everywhere right now, at the school gates, work, on social media, women are running themselves ragged while their male partners do sweet fa, or very little. So many women take on this responsibility and have it foisted on them.
It drives me potty!
My husband is in charge of Christmas here. I have health problems, so it's always fallen to him, apart from cooking. All the shopping, gifts, cards, organising, he does it. So then I get the 'ooh you've got him well trained" thing. No. Any adult can do these things.

[titsbumfannythelot]

Do these women not have the power of speech to ask for help?

[Smartleatherbag]

That's not my point, tits. Do you normally comment on the feminist boards? It's about the cultural assumption that women will do it all. And that men only 'help'

[titsbumfannythelot]

Sorry, bag.

I'll get back to my ironing.

If you could let my husband know when I'm allowed to post on the feminist boards.

[VestalVirgin]

Yeah, this is the kind of thing where a woman just has to learn to ignore all the outside pressure that she do stuff.

I am very emotionally attached to having a "nice" Christmas. Which means that I bake very elaborately decorated cookies, because no one else does. (I celebrate with my parents, who aren't as perfectionist about this sort of thing, but do most of the actual food, etc., so I don't feel disadvantaged)

I can easily see how my tendency to want everything nice and pretty - Christmas tree, and decorations and so on and so forth - could make me the one person in the house who does everything if I started to live with a man.

The only recommendation I can give to others is to closely examine this emotional attachment to all things that are supposed to be done because of Christmas, and disentangle them from other emotional attachments, and look what can be done without at least one year without it causing too much unhappiness. Then make it clear you will not do it this year, and if he wants to have it, he will have to do it himself.

[maddy68]

How do you know their partners do sweet fa?
Is it assumed that the women will do it all?
Certainly not in my circle of friends and family

[Smartleatherbag]

Thanks Vestal, yes, it's that programming, isn't it? I totally get that.

[Smartleatherbag]

Well if it doesn't happen to you specifically Maddy, then obviously it's not happening anywhere. Are you the same about global warming? It's cold round yours so it's not real?
Sheesh.

[whattheseithakasmean]

Some women live to Martyr themselves making a big song and dance about doing things no one else really gives a shit about. Not me, though.

[Smartleatherbag]

Oh god, mn really has gone down the drain. With the exception of Vestal, not a decent reply.

[maddy68]

Wow so aggressive?
You made a rash generalisation and I simply pointed out that in m experience that isn't true
Have a nice Christmas and don't run yourself ragged stuffing a turkey while your oh is doing sweet fa

[Smartleatherbag]

No understanding of the wider cultural assumptions, all very 'well, it's fine here, so let's not analyse the dynamics'.

[ripples101]

Maddy, Smartleatherbag is probably being "aggressive" (in your eyes) because, with the exception of Vestal, ever single reply so far (including yours) has completely missed the point.

This thread has not even got of the ground, and I suspect that it will now never do so. Smartleatherbag, your post, irrespective of whether people agree or disagree, at the very least deserves responses from posters who at the very least understand, acknowledge, and address your point.

[Gizlotsmum]

I've probably done most of Christmas prep.. but I enjoy it, my husband does anything I ask him to do to help, I enjoy baking, we share cooking, shopping I do as I have more time. I am happy.. he would ( and has done ) it all when I have struggled

[Gizlotsmum]

I know that sounds like I fall into one of those school gate women but is it so bad if I enjoy it?

[Poocatcherchampion]

I guess all the people who agree with you are too busy rushing round doing everything for Christmas. :)

Except me. Although my dh has done bugger all - I'm just a fast worker...

[maddy68]

I don't think I have missed the point.
I have never had the 'you have him well trained' comments as my family and friends simply are not like that, everyone pulls their weight and they are not gender specific
I suspect thar happened in my mums generation but certainly not in my experience. Just because my experience isn't the same as someone else's doesn't make it wrong or require passive aggressive comments.

This is why I generally avoid this board as if you ever offer a different perspective it is met with vitriol which is a shame as I thought the point of feminist chat was to discussion

[MangoBiscuit]

This evening I've been wasting time on MN while DH did some present wrapping. I've not "trained him well", he's not a puppy. I also didn't "delegate" or ask for "help" as it's not just my responsibility to do all the Christmas stuff. We did have a conversation some weeks back when we decided who was doing what.

Anecdotally, I know plenty of women who are doing the lion's share of Christmas prep, regardless of who in the house works longer hours. Some of these women tell me I'm "lucky that DH does so much". Luck doesn't have anything to do with it, I just won't put up with being a skivvy, and I didn't marry an arsehole. We talk, we agree who's doing what, we crack on. I don't think it's just a Christmas thing though, it's just a seasonal variant of wifework.

[TheTantrumCometh]

I think the problem is the assumption that women should ask for help. Why is it considered normal that the woman should think of absolutely everything and then delegate to those around her? Yes there are households where this doesn't take place, and things are split differently, but unfortunately I can't think of a single one that I know.

You can even see this in day to day conversations. I don't recall anyone ever asking my DH what he's planning on getting the kids for Christmas, or whether he's all done with his shopping (unless it's specifically about my gift).

You can see it in memes; there's currently one circulating about a list of presents women have to buy (kids, husband, parents, husbands parents, siblings, husbands siblings, nieces, nephews, cousins, aunts uncles, secret Santa etc) and presents husbands have to buy (wife) that have been shared, liked, commented on, thousands and thousands of times. Or the one that says "When you get a presents and the tag says 'from mum and dad' and you just know sad has no idea what's in it." I sent that one privately to my parents last year because it was true and I did find it amusing (Christmas nostalgia heavy last year what with it being my Df's last one).

The fact is, most people see only two options: the woman does it all (or at least most of it), or she stops acting like a 'martyr' and ask her DH for help. Either way 100 percent of the responsibility for 'pulling Christmas off' falls to the woman. And I understand, from having a DM who does like to act like a martyr on occasion that it does happen, but it's still assuming that it's a woman's responsibility to delegate.

[ripples101]

This is why I generally avoid this board as if you ever offer a different perspective it is met with vitriol which is a shame as I thought the point of feminist chat was to discussion

You stated that a rash generalisation had been made, yet you missed the point that was actually being made. As a result, you jumped in with a antagonistic comment, not the other way round.

[HermioneWeasley]

There is so much pressure to have a perfect Christmas. The men I know tend to take a "don't bother" approach to reducing the work rather than "let me pitch in so we can make it magical"