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Philip Davies and men's part time pay

(17 Posts)
WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid Wed 21-Dec-16 23:34:17

Philip Davies has been discussing the gender pay gap. It seems men get paid less than women for part time work.

Surely the issue is crap part time work. It's so hard to get a well paid professional role that's also well paid.
If he campaigns for better pay and opportunities for people who want to work part time and improved work life balance for all - then I'm all for it. I have a sneaking suspicion that's not going to be his approach.

Not really sure why men would be paid less? Maybe it's a bit usual for a man to choose to go part time unless his partner is on a very good wage (and so he can pick a less pressured job?

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38385259?client=safari

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid Wed 21-Dec-16 23:34:53

//www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38385259?client=safari

RitaCrudgington Wed 21-Dec-16 23:40:47

He's such a tosser. I work in a high paid industry - part time. I know at least four other mothers in the company who work part time, all in pretty well-paid jobs. No men work part time in the industry because none of them ask for it, because their wives all pick up the slack foe childcare or don't work full time. I know a few fathers in well paid jobs do work part time, either because they're very modern or because they have sole custody for whatever reason - but the numbers are tiny.

Manumission Wed 21-Dec-16 23:44:45

Is he trying to justify his place on the committee? Does he think he can only represent male interests? confused

Manumission Thu 22-Dec-16 00:55:48

BTW you seem to have confused Philip Green with Philip Davies grin

ChocChocPorridge Thu 22-Dec-16 07:00:42

It's an interesting stat.

I can think of lots of reasons it is so though - these men in part time jobs I would guess are those who would like to be full time, but can't get it right now - so are on minimum or a little above minimum wage (my brother for instance), they don't view these part time jobs as a long term prospect, but just what they'll do until they can get full time work

The women who work these hours have consciously chosen to do only the amount of work that fits around their children (both my sisters and myself for example) - ie. they're in jobs they intend to stay in, and have stayed in, so they might have had pay raises, they might be jobs that there were once doing full time and are now doing part time etc.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid Thu 22-Dec-16 07:13:27

man oh shit - that will teach me to post after bedtime - I'll report my post grin

lovelearning Thu 22-Dec-16 07:29:22

Sir Philip, where did the BHS pension money go? angry

Seachangeshell Thu 22-Dec-16 07:47:11

What an idiot he is. I read about that and knew exactly why that would be straight away. It's because of professional women returning to their jobs part time after maternity leave. I'm a teacher and there are 4 other part time female teachers alone at my school who've got caring responsibilities. Obviously I get paid way more than the average hourly salary if you go only on my contracted hours. In my 18 year career I've only known one male teacher who's worked part time. It's deliberate misreading of the figures on Phillip Green's part.

tribpot Thu 22-Dec-16 07:47:26

I'm assuming that rather than merely complain about this perceived problem (which I think requires quite a lot of analysis, e.g. are male consultants who take Fridays off to play golf or do private work full-time or part-time?) Philip Davies has some constructive suggestions about how the problem can be tackled?

As ever with this dickhead, I think it is a shame that he has expressed in dog whistle terms something which actually is important about equality in the workplace: it is far less socially acceptable for men to work part-time than women (noting the consultant exception above). Meaning there are far fewer men able to balance work and childcare responsibilities whilst their children are young, or take on a share in caring for elderly parents, etc.

girlwiththeflaxenhair Thu 22-Dec-16 07:50:51

these men in part time jobs I would guess are those who would like to be full time

So any man who works part time is only doing so because he is unable to work FT, i mean why else would a man not have a FT job ? I don't think we can say that with any authority. Also the "whataboutery" being displayed here is fairly typical, i.e. "it doesn't matter and its only because these don't want a FT job". "All PT jobs are shite and men dont want them, what about why mostly women do them".

I know a few fathers in well paid jobs do work part time,

Is this the old "not equivalent work" argument ?

Supposing any of these arguments were actually true, that PT work was paid less because it was somehow viewed as womanly - wouldn't it be good for it to be called out ?

Seachangeshell Thu 22-Dec-16 07:56:41

Phillip Davies ha ha!

girlwiththeflaxenhair Thu 22-Dec-16 08:24:16

For all i dislike the man and the platform he has chosen, he would be doing men a favour if people start to examine their work life balance a bit more.

ChocChocPorridge Thu 22-Dec-16 10:08:03

So any man who works part time is only doing so because he is unable to work FT, i mean why else would a man not have a FT job ? I don't think we can say that with any authority. Also the "whataboutery" being displayed here is fairly typical, i.e. "it doesn't matter and its only because these don't want a FT job". "All PT jobs are shite and men dont want them, what about why mostly women do them"

No. That's not what I said.

I said, that most of the men I know who work part time are doing so whilst looking for full time work. There are also women in this position, but personally, in my life I have known 2 men who worked part time out of choice (outside of students), and one of these men took seasonal, minimum wage work, one works 3 days a week at his career, as does his wife. This is bar work, shop work, picking etc. Jobs that are relatively plentiful, and aren't viewed as a career (unless you want them to be, and move into management)

Of the women I know who work part time (outside of students), they are all working part time in the same jobs they were working in pre-children, or in career-style jobs such as Teaching Assistant. Alternatively they're in free-lance type stuff, such as childminding or cleaning.

Ie. the exact opposite of your last sentence.

Sure, there are plenty of shite part time jobs. But the reason I think women's part time jobs are better paid is because they were often full time jobs which the women have made part time jobs, and the stats show that full time jobs are better paid.

More men than women are in full time employment by a large margin, and it's the reverse in part time. I agree that society needs to change to allow more of these men to go part time and get a better balance (also, incidentally, thus opening more higher paid part time roles for other people to take up) - but it's not women doing that to them, they have to actually ask for it in order for it to happen - just as women have.

amispartacus Thu 22-Dec-16 10:10:52

It's because of professional women returning to their jobs part time after maternity leave

It's a statistic that needs careful analysis.

It needs the actual jobs analysed.
How many women in professional careers work part time compared to men in professional careers?

That's why the gender pay gap is far more complex than headline figures.

Miffer Thu 22-Dec-16 10:17:40

How many women in professional careers work part time compared to men in professional careers?

This is the first thing that I thought of. I work in a profession that is 75% female, part time work is hard to come by but it is there.

DeviTheGaelet Thu 22-Dec-16 22:09:42

Yes I agree more research is needed. I suspect there is a bias by the fact that far more women than men work PT and so maybe there are some statistical errors.
If there is a systemic problem it could be that men are disproportionately penalised for PT when women are rewarded, because going PT is seen as acceptable for mothers but not father's. Almost the reverse of the "motherhood penalty" where mothers earn less because of the risk they'll leave, father's earn more because they are providers.
Definitely needs more looking into to be sure though.

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