Just found this gem - it's got denial, mansplaining, talking over women

[amispartacus]

Linked to the Asda Christmas advert a few years ago. A discussion about why it was sexist and the messages it gives out.

[WomanFromAnotherPlace]

Thank you for sharing this, it made for interesting viewing.

The portrayal of the father in that ad irked me more than anything. Standing back with hands in pockets, rolling his eyes while his partner picks the tree. Also, she makes all the dinner/wraps presents/does housework and he has the fucking nerve to sit at the 'head of the table' while she serves him food and she has to sit on a beanbag? THEN she washes up and sits down and he goes "What's for tea, love?"
Bet she had to pour her own fucking glass of wine too. Prick

[WomanFromAnotherPlace]

Also that condescending twat laughing over Kate and doing the 'bit of harmless fun/blowing out of proportion' rhetoric.
I LOVE when he tells her what 'she's really talking about'. Yes, Jonathan, please do tell women what they mean to say.

[WomanFromAnotherPlace]

...And how he leans into her personal space! And does that arm resting at the back of the chair. Ugh.

[123MothergotafleA]

As I was musing on another thread I wonder what kind of Chrismas we could enjoy if it was all left to men?!!!
Not a single Christmas card sent, no presents bought until Christmas Eve, no food prepared etc, the list goes on.
A friend who works in a dept. store says its normal to find the men diving in to the store late on Christmas Eve to buy their partners gift.
My friend said that they would buy anything with a red bow attached to it, so zero thought put in.
Best not to imagine Christmas if left to them....

[Eminybob]

What a twat.
Completely disregarding and minimalising Kate's very valid argument.
Misogyny at its best and actually worse than the ad itself.

[reallyanotherone]

123 you're buying into the sexist mentality the ad is aimed at.

Men are capable of doing everything a woman does at christmas. My dh is more organised than me with presents, tree etc, and loves doing it. I don't send cards either.

If you come at it With the expectation that men will do a crap job, then they're not going to bother. Same as all these little girls being told power tools are a man thing, so they leave diy to the man.

If women stopped believing that men can't do this stuff, and doing it all themselves, more men would get the chance to show they can do it...

[123MothergotafleA]

Hi there Really!
Yes I'm sure men are as capable as women of doing things, but my own observation is that they never do.
I don't know of any man in my circle of friends/ work colleagues/family, who does anything like the share of homemaking chores that their partners do.
Is it something about a penis being some kind of obstacle or something?
I don't know, and I'd love to be proved wrong and be shown endless examples of hard working male homemakers going about their work.
Somehow I'm sceptical.

[123MothergotafleA]

And I long for the day that men just elbow those bossy women out of the way and take over all those boring household tasks.
Cloud cuckoo land beckons...

[reallyanotherone]

Men don't do it because the women do, assuming men will do a shit job.

I wouldn't elbow anyone out of the way to get to the boring household tasks, who would?

I have a friend, and when she went back to work full time after pfb, i advised her that a cleaner was the best thing i ever did. She replied that her house didn't take much in the way of cleaning, just a bit of a tidy here and there.

Turns out her husband does it all. When the baby came along and he mucked in with the childcare, she realised how much he did at home. They have a cleaner now :).

Sweeping generalisations and stereotypying like you are doing only reinforces womens roles, and nothing will change.

[ChocChocPorridge]

If you come at it With the expectation that men will do a crap job, then they're not going to bother. Same as all these little girls being told power tools are a man thing, so they leave diy to the man.

Jesus Christ.. I have one of the more hands on of my sisters and friends partners, but he hasn't bought a single bloody present this year (so his family are missing out - because I stopped doing that job ages ago), I was the one that got us out of the house to buy a tree, I'll be doing the Christmas food shop. Sure, he'll probably help cook, but I'll be the one peeling spuds and dealing with the kids because he gets too grumpy if he has to perform a task whilst being interrupted. I decorated, and got the stuff for the kids school parties and performances - we both work full time I might add.

Hearing the reality of women's experience is not 'buying into sexism' - I know, that given the chance, my other half would let me do absolutely everything - it's only firm words, and discussions about fairness that keep him engaged in running the family, otherwise he would just assume that things will be done by me.

Happy to let him take over any tasks he likes - in fact, that's my preferred method of delegation in his case - hence his sole responsibility for the dishwasher and bedtimes.

[ChocChocPorridge]

I wouldn't elbow anyone out of the way to get to the boring household tasks, who would

Almost every woman who's ever come to stay, or for a meal, has come and asked what they can do to help, or just looked around, realised, and started doing (taking plates to the table, helping child put socks on, whatever).

Guess how many men have? (beyond offering to pour me a drink when they're getting one from themselves and encounter me in the kitchen making food whilst doing so) I can say one - my Dad, who, after having a big family himself, recognises what needs helping with to get kids out to school.

[Thattimeofyearagain]

Sweeping generalization. Not like that in my house. My dh took Wednesday off to start food shopping / complete present shopping and do the wrapping. All without a list of instructions . Coz he is my PARTNER and an ADULT. Seriously some of my female colleagues are working themselves into the ground getting everything done while their oh watches. Makes me want to

[Cinnamon2013]

My DH has organised most of kids' presents and sent all our cards. He's already bought my present. I haven't got his. I am crap at organisation (not proud of this!). I will prob grab something with a red bow on it in Xmas eve

Also - dads who come round here tidy up and put kids' socks on just as much as mums.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

As I was musing on another thread I wonder what kind of Chrismas we could enjoy if it was all left to men?!!!

Maybe one without the lunatic panic that it has to be perfect with ever more ludicrous "traditions " like elf on a shelf and Christmas Eve hampers?

[sleepingkoala]

Urgh yeah it was sexist. The worst part was after her apparently doing all the work, her husband sits at the head of the table whilst she has to sit on a bean bag. What on earth. Then the 'what's for tea love' at the end lol. The interview/debate was uncomfortable to watch. He was very patronising to her 'for goodness sake!' and didn't really address why it was sexist. And they had them sat so close together but he kept leaning in and putting his band behind on her chair/her back as a gesture. She seemed to be interrupting him a bit though but he behaved much worse.

Anyway yes of course it's outdated and sexist to have an advert which shows a husband and wife at christmas where the mum does all the work and then clearly implies that every household is like that and that's normal and just how things are. It doesn't matter if a lot of mum's do work than the dad's (I don't know) but are they seriously saying they don't see how that's just promoting that further as the only way to be. 'behind EVERY christmas'. Well, no. What about everyone else. And that's not even mentioning how the mum in the advert was treated like with the bean bag.

[sleepingkoala]

*'hand' not 'band'.

Also I think she had a point obviously but I think she could have expressed it a bit better especially towards in the end in response to some of his points. I'm not saying I would do any better if I was interviewed but yeah.

[sleepingkoala]

Like I think she focussed too much on the 'magic' part and the turkey being the right colour etc. I don't see that as being a problem. Obviously it's going to have everything looking good (although I didn't think it looked amazingly appetising personally but that's not the point - it looked good) and use words like 'magic' as it's an advert. They are seeking their products. I don't see what that has to do with anything or why that's an issue. I wish they could have got someone on who articulated what's actually wrong with it more than wasting time talking about that when I think it's pretty irrelevant to actual point.

[claraschu]

I could feel my blood pressure rising watching that interview, especially when he patronisingly put his hand on the back of her chair. The ad didn't bother me as much because it was so over the top that it was easy to spot the wrongness. Even the stupid man in the interview could spot it.

I loved it when she said: "Sexism is always funny". Of course he was too much of an arse to understand what an arse he was being.

[girlwiththeflaxenhair]

I don't know of any man in my circle of friends/ work colleagues/family, who does anything like the share of homemaking chores that their partners do.

It is interesting this, IME men actually just don't give much of a shit about it. I have me a few women who are like this, but most of them are socialised or conditioned or whatever it is to give more a of a shit than men do. When they say "they don't see" i think they really don't.

[reallyanotherone]

Where do you think it starts though? Genuine q, btw, not being a gf.

I know my mil brought up her boy/girl with very different roles. Girls are clever, clean, etc, boys are greedy and dirty. She looked after her older grandchildren a lot and the boys were left to play, "burn off energy", and watch tv with grandad. The girls, of course, "really loved" helping mil with the cleaning, and it was so cute when they would copy her dusting or with their toy hoover. I put mine in nursery.

So i can see where dh gets it. However i am inherently lazy :), so he has had to step up. If he wants cards sent or presents bought, he has to do it.

[amispartacus]

The hand on the back of the chair.

And dismissing it as a funny ad...

[reallyanotherone]

Chocchoc- women do that because they are socialised to do it. Not because of some innate skill.

[girlwiththeflaxenhair]

I don't know where it starts but I do think that most of the pressure to have a tidy house/perfect christmas and be perfectly groomed does not come from men. I find this "if it were left to men" rhetoric uncomfortable, its the same stuff you hear from mras or such like who say "if society had been left to women we'd still be in the stone age".

[MsUnderstanding]

Another reason not to shop at Asda.

The twitter account seemed to belong to the mansplaner in question so err, let's stop contributing to traffic.

[MsUnderstanding]

Sorry, You Tube account.