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Women's March London 21st January

(219 Posts)
user1481714646 Wed 14-Dec-16 13:55:28

In solidarity with women's marches across the globe on 21st January there will be a march in London, ending up at Trafalgar square.

It is a show of numbers to condemn many harmful attitudes towards women, minorities of race and religion, LGBTQA+ peoples and survivors of sexual assaults.

These issues will not go away by this march, but it is to remind to the global audience that they are prevalent and not enough is being done to curb harmful rhetoric and actions against these people's.

www.facebook.com/womensmarchlondon/

Prawnofthepatriarchy Wed 14-Dec-16 19:53:50

I've visited both the Facebook page and the website and am left unclear about what the march is for specifically. At first glance the London march appears simply to be in solidarity with an anti-Trump march taking place on the same day in Washington. 21st January is the day on which Donald Trump is inaugurated. Not at all sure what this has to do with women in London.

There's no mention of many of the specific issues that might be important to British women. I would need to know more about the detailed objectives before I became enthusiastic. The mention of the LGBTQIA alphabet soup leaves me hmm I'm certainly not schlepping up to London to march for trans rights.

TitaniasCloset Wed 14-Dec-16 23:54:22

I thought this might be a nice chance to be in my first ever march and was excited its for women, but I'm with Prawn I'm not marching for trans rights and Trump has did all to do with me. If anyone has any other info though,?

TitaniasCloset Wed 14-Dec-16 23:55:02

Sod all rather.

iloveruby Thu 15-Dec-16 00:46:08

I had a look at their website and it is so wishy washy about their objectives. I am particularly concerned about their inclusion of LGBTQIA - to be honest I suspect their lack of identification about objectives and how they relate to women will lead to pretty much nothing (except for a lot of self congratulation).

There is also a million women rise march in March..... They seem a lot clearer about their objectives and demands but it looks rather small.

However, in the website they are clear they support ALL women (their emphasis), so again they position may be more along the lines of lib fem......I'm going to msg and ask.

www.millionwomenrise.com/statement-of-demands.html

LassWiTheDelicateAir Thu 15-Dec-16 00:50:34

Probably missing the point but goodness their merchandise is pricey for what it is.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Thu 15-Dec-16 08:50:00

Million Women Rise isn't small, it just never gets any coverage. In the past big groups of Mners have gone (many with kids) and had meet-ups before and after.
That's definitely the one to go for.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat Thu 15-Dec-16 10:56:58

I would travel the considerable distance to London to march for women and girls' rights to safe spaces and privacy and against the anti-female TRA agenda.

I will not march for trans activists rights to take our freedoms away.

So unless the purpose of the march is clearly defined, I can't give it my support. I expect I will not be alone

M0stlyHet Thu 15-Dec-16 12:01:16

It's a difficult one. Trump is on record as saying women should be punished for having abortions, his VP wants to roll back Roe vs. Wade, funding to Planned Parenthood is going to be cut, the bits of Obamacare that give women free or affordable contraception will go - there's a lot to be said for marching in solidarity with American women on that front.

Also, while I am a gender critical feminist, I don't want to see trans people attacked on the street or subject to discrimination in employment (barring a few jobs where biology matters, like carrying out medical exams, working in women-only refuges etc.) I look on trans rights the same way I look on religious tolerance - people should be free to believe what they want to, so long as I'm not forced to share those beliefs and so long as those beliefs don't impinge on my rights (cf the battle during the early phases of Obamacare as to whether employers should be allowed opt outs from funding contraception if the firm was owned by Catholics, for e.g.) So I think there's a strong case, given the spike in hate crimes against gay and trans people, for marching in solidarity to say "no-one should get beaten up on the street for their sexuality or personal beliefs". Surely it should be possible to do this without feeling one has signed up to every demand of the nutjob transactivists, in the same way it should be possible to march in defence of Muslim women's right not to be attacked on the street for wearing a hijab without feeling that doing so aligns one with ISIS. (Actually, it tells me a lot about the spectacular own-goal that is extreme transactivism that their absurd propaganda has alienated naturally liberal and right-thinking people to this extent).

Anyway, for me it is a moot point - childcare responsibilities mean I can't travel 5 hours to take part in this sort of march.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Thu 15-Dec-16 12:45:07

Actually, it tells me a lot about the spectacular own-goal that is extreme transactivism that their absurd propaganda has alienated naturally liberal and right-thinking people to this extent.

Well yes. My first thought was "what are they calling a woman"? I'm a lesbian but I was alienated by the alphabet soup crap some time ago.

I'd march for women & girls' right to be safe, regardless of religion, sexuality, beliefs etc.I'd march for abortion rights. I support transwomen's right to safety, obviously, as long as it doesn't impinge on women's rights, but it's a completely separate issue.

no-one should get beaten up on the street for their sexuality or personal beliefs

Absolutely. And no lesbians should be threatened or attacked - physically or otherwise - for not being attracted to biological males.

user1481804926 Thu 15-Dec-16 12:58:38

Thank you all so much for taking the time to comment on this post about the Women's March on London which I am helping get off the ground with 8 other women and the support of LOTS of volunteers.

None of us are PR trained and I apologise for the fact that our mission statement has caused confusion. We're still a grassroots movement and so your comments are incredibly helpful and we'll be sure to tweek our mission statement in the coming days, so watch this space.

Now, to answer some of your questions...

Firstly, I'd like to stress that this march is NOT an anti-Trump march, though it's fair to say his election did mobilise us to start with. But rather than focus on negatives (anti this, anti that), we're trying to focus on the positives.

What does that actually mean? Well, it means that we are marching FOR women's rights, FOR disabled people's right, FOR immigrants rights, FOR LGBT rights and FOR the rights of ANY group or cause attacked by Trump during his campaign. This is because women form a part of each and every one of these groups.

Furthermore, we aim to march in solidarity not just with women in the USA but women across the globe whose rights are still not being respected in the way that we believe they should. We strongly feel that the protection of women's right is everyone's concern, no matter where you live.

Secondly, I appreciate that our t-shirts aren't cheap BUT the profit that's made through their sale goes directly into making this march happen. So essentially they are for fundraising. We aren't pocketing a penny and working flat out in our spare time to make sure the march is fun, vibrant and beautiful. A celebration really of all the gorgeousness that women bring to the world and sadly without money we can't cover our basic costs. This includes PLI, training stewarts for on the day, stage hire etc.

Thirdly, The Million Women Rise group are in fact marching with us, as are a number of female MPs, the Women's Equality Party, The Equality Trust, the LSE student body etc. We so hope you too can join us.

Finally, if you cannot travel to London to join us on the day, please consider helping in other ways. For example, you can spread the word by sharing our facebook page www.facebook.com/womensmarchlondon or
by buying a badge, a t-shirt, whatever you can womensmarchonwashingtonlondon.teemill.co.uk/category/all-products-2785/

Thank you all so, so much again for your feedback.
Sincerely,

Kimberly

YetAnotherSpartacus Thu 15-Dec-16 12:59:59

Are there speakers? I've found lately that so many speakers at womyn's events have been TRAs.

M0stlyHet Thu 15-Dec-16 13:17:39

"Absolutely. And no lesbians should be threatened or attacked - physically or otherwise - for not being attracted to biological males."

Totally agree - it's male rape culture in action, and utterly indefensible.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Thu 15-Dec-16 13:21:42

Thanks for responding, Kimberly.

Just to explain quickly. TRA stands for Trans Rights Activist.

Many Mumsnet feminists are extremely worried about the growing idea that a woman is "anyone who identifies as a woman" regardless of biology. Especially given that the likes of abortion rights, FGM, etc are directly related to sex, not "gender".

As I said in my previous post, I'm a lesbian, and lesbians are getting increasing abuse for not accepting transwomen as sexual partners.

Could you just clarify what "woman" means in your context?

Prawnofthepatriarchy Thu 15-Dec-16 13:21:42

OP, I notice your post doesn't actually address the concerns expressed by PPs about trans activism, from which I gather that the march is in favour of the antifeminist "Transwomen are women" slogan. Trans ideology poses a regressive threat to the safety of women and girls. It also removes our power to define ourselves. How can we campaign for women's issues when the term "woman" becomes meaningless, an idea in some man's head?

Also, you haven't explained why London? I'm far from impressed by Trump but I can't see the point of protesting the results of another nation's democratic election. Abortion rights in the USA? How is a UK march going to help? It all seems very vague. Who will be speaking?

Prawnofthepatriarchy Thu 15-Dec-16 13:32:00

Just spotted OP's second post. "The gorgeousness that women bring to the world"? Are you sure you're organizing a feminist event? Because I really can't imagine anyone would speak of the "gorgeousness men,bring to the world." No, men are considered too powerful and serious. It's we women who contribute the gorgeous bit. It's called performing femininity, OP, not feminism.

I'm beginning to suspect this march is not for me.

M0stlyHet Thu 15-Dec-16 13:37:57

I have to admit I'm more than a bit puzzled that you should choose 21st January, link it to the march in Washington, then say it is not anti-Trump, but rather some sort of over-arching festival of kum-ba-yah inclusivity. Hint - I know you say you're not PR trained, but political protest marches tend to work best when you have a fairly clear idea of what it is you're protesting about. No one (or very few people at any rate) is going to get off their arse for a celebration of "women's gorgeousness" (which I agree with PP is a bit barf inducing).

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Thu 15-Dec-16 13:40:09

I'm just looking at the merchandise web page which says "All welcome: Women, Men, LGBT...

Kimberley, lesbians are women. Female women with vaginas & everything. Please take us out of your alphabet soup. How about "Women, Men, Transpeople" or even "All who wish to stand together"?

user1481804926 Thu 15-Dec-16 13:51:25

Oh gosh wow, thanks for all your comments and questions. Food for thought. I'll respond as best I can.

YetAnotherSparticus : YES, there will be speakers. We have not finalised the list of speakers yet. The moment we do I'll be happy to post something here.

EmpressOfSparticusOceans : We strongly feel that as a woman, as a human being you should have the right to choose your life/sexual partner WITHOUT abuse of any kind. That's pretty fundamental human rights stuff. And we're most certainly marching for that.

We are keen to be inclusive and welcoming and to bring people together. This also means that we welcome transgendered men and women. With this march we're trying to move away from the 'them against us' mentality and march for things that unite us. Human rights are for everyone and we hope that this common denominator will help us bridge our differences, at least on the day.

PrawnOfThePatriarchy - I though I had address the London/Trump point. Sorry if I wasn't clear. You're spot on, as UK citizens we have no say in the vote or outcome of the US election (though some of those marching in London will be US citizens as well). Furthermore we're also tired of all the negatively that's been thrown about of late. Hence why the Women's March on London is NOT an ANTI-Trump march. However, we march in solidarity with women in the US and across the world, who have suffered and continue to suffered attacks on their dignity, freedom and rights. We want them to know that they are not alone, even if their specific battles don't affect us directly. If there are still women whose right to choose are being questioned our work just isn't done!

For us women's rights is a global issue and a global concern. It's why the march is now going worldwide, with sister marches being organised in Australia, Canada, France and Sweden, to name but a few. There's no way London wasn't gonna be a part of this ;)

Thanks again for continue to ask thought-provoking questions.
Sincerely,

Kimberly

FloraFox Thu 15-Dec-16 13:57:41

Kimberly what does this mean

"A celebration really of all the gorgeousness that women bring to the world"

TitaniasCloset Thu 15-Dec-16 17:45:48

I don't want to come together with trans rights activists so sorry, not for me but I wish you well.

iloveruby Thu 15-Dec-16 21:32:07

Hi Kimberly,

I just wanted to confirm how you were defining women - especially as you are marching to support women's dignity, freedom and rights.

Do you define women as adult females or is a woman anyone who identify as one?
Many thanks

Prawnofthepatriarchy Fri 16-Dec-16 14:52:08

A march that represents everyone regardless of identity isn't a feminist event, user1481. What you're describing is a very vague humanist agenda. Feminism centres females, our issues, our oppression, or it is not feminist at all.

What precisely do you hope to achieve? Without clear objectives no political movement can succeed. And the interests of women very often do end up being about what divides us from those whose claims and demands infringe on our hard won rights.

Castelnaumansions Fri 16-Dec-16 15:33:50

Sounds great, I'll be there! Starts at 12.00 where?

user1481804926 Sat 17-Dec-16 10:55:04

Castelnaumansions we will announce the exact starting point in the new year. Please keep checking this page of the website womensmarchonlondon.com/index.php/the-march/
Many thanks smile

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