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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Jenni Murray Woman's hour today (trans)

401 replies

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:12

Hey,
Did anyone hear Jenni Murray on woman's hour today, her guest was India Willoughby. India is trans and was advocating that it was correct for the Dorchester to dictate that their female staff shave their legs.

India was very spiked in her conversation and implied Jenni was transphobic because the panalists didn't agree.

Again, a woman being called transphobic because they didn't agree with a transwoman's opinion.

Thank you Jenni for standing up for women!

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SpeakNoWords · 02/12/2016 11:16

Does anyone know if it's legal to issue rules like this to female staff?

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:23

I am sure it's legal, but it was the YOU ARE A TRANSPHOBE position India took, because Jenni etc didn't agree that India was correct.

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BakeOffBiscuits · 02/12/2016 11:27

Oh my goodness, I was driving and nearly had to stop the car I was so fucking angry.

She is a prime example of someone growing up with white male privilege and just not "getting it" She also had a go at "feminists".

SpeakNoWords · 02/12/2016 11:29

Do you know when ish in the programme they talk about the Dorchester? I can't listen to all the bollocks about brain gender.

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:29

It was incredible.

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Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:31

Good on Jenni though, but sadly I bet she gets a backlash.

She was incredibly courteous and polite.

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Bambambini · 02/12/2016 11:32

India, who wants to educate men that they should consider TW as dates/ partners as they're just like any other women? Like to see how that goes down. India does make a convincing woman though.

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:32

Speaknowords (sorry I don't know how to bold) it was mentioned fleetingly, it wasn't the focus of the chat.

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JigglyTuff · 02/12/2016 11:33

Urgh it was bloody awful.

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:34

Bambambini, India is convincing in outward appearance, but her chat was stereotypically male gender. With all the privileges.

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Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:36

India was brilliant in demonstrating, publicly, what many men and women feel is wrong about this gender debate.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/12/2016 11:40

Is there a woman's hour comments site? Should we all write to there or elsewhere with praise for Jenni and criticism of India?

SpeakNoWords · 02/12/2016 11:40

Found it, it's at about 39 minutes in.

India equates shaved legs to being "clean" and not disheveled. India seems to have totally bought into massively stereotypical expectations about women's dress and presentation.

BakeOffBiscuits · 02/12/2016 11:43

speak it was the last 5 -10 mins of the programme.

i really would love to know what the feed back was. Surely anyone listening would think India was being a mysoginistic twit.

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:44

Oh India, whereas my stereotypical expectation of women (the sex) not having a penis is so so out of date. And transphobic.

Sigh.

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PeteSwotatoes · 02/12/2016 11:45

India seems to have totally bought into massively stereotypical expectations about women's dress and presentation

Isn't that basically essential for anyone who considers themselves to be a trans woman?

shivermytimbers · 02/12/2016 11:45

India came across as a massive bell-end.

ellenjames · 02/12/2016 11:46

God this made me so angry!

SpeakNoWords · 02/12/2016 11:46

I also don't believe for a second that India doesn't care too much about grooming and clothes. Plus the idea that by "manicure" the Dorchester just meant clean nails is absurd!

Presumably the rules are for all staff, whether they're cleaners or on the front desk?

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:47

Shivers - "a massive bell-end" the hilarious irony.

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BakeOffBiscuits · 02/12/2016 11:48

The other hilarious comment was when India said why should she have to think twice about being a panalist on Loose Women.

Well, I can think of a few reasons.

JigglyTuff · 02/12/2016 11:49

It is always about performing femininity. Always.

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user1477282676 · 02/12/2016 11:50

I can't get annoyed about this more than I would be annoyed if India had been born in a woman's body but still held these views. Many women who are born women believe that women should shave and have a certain "look".

Trans women can't do anything right and just like us, we won't like them all or agree with their opinions.

I agree that India is a bit of a bell end....but I won't join the hate train that is apparent here on MN at various times.

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:51

I haven't seen loose women, will they be sycophantic, fully embracing the new speak? Or will there be a proper challenge to India's POV?

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Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:52

Jiggy - the femininity prescribed by society, rather than any innate womanly "feels".

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