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you know that Grayson Perry vid everyone is posting on facebook?

(22 Posts)
MaudlinNamechange Tue 15-Nov-16 12:34:53

Do you think that when people share it, it's a dogwhistle gender-critical-spartacus-type message?

I have noticed over time that a lot of people who used to post a lot about trans rights stuff as part of a general right-on mix, are a lot quieter on the issue. and now I'm seeing that Grayson Perry thing on the odd timeline

What do you think?

RedLemonade Tue 15-Nov-16 12:38:52

Any chance of a YouTube link to the vid?

JinkxMonsoon Tue 15-Nov-16 12:41:14

I've seen it but not had anyone share it on my timeline.

I thought it was refreshing (and unexpected) to hear him say "what do I know about being a woman; I'm a man?"

As for whether it's a sign of the turning tide, I don't know. Probably not. I daresay the trans lobby don't disassociate themselves with him and haven't done for a long time. He's always been perfectly happy to describe himself as a transvestite, which almost feels outdated to the point of un-PC these days, although there's still a place for a man to say "I dress as a woman because it turns me on" IMO <cough> wink

IndominusRex Tue 15-Nov-16 12:44:19

I really like him, he seems to just hit the nail on the head on so many points. 'I'm a man in a dress, so what' 'I don't know anything about being a woman' and openly discussing the sexual side of it too. I think he's really brave and I appreciate his attitude. And I hope it is opening people's eyes. Although I saw a comment on the video along the lines of "this is really harmful to genuine trans people" so there are clearly some people determined to keep their head firmly in the sand regardless.

Destinysdaughter Tue 15-Nov-16 12:50:47

Not seen the video so can't comment. A link would be useful. However I think Grayson Peedy is a very thoughtful and insightful individual and has been very good on the issues around toxic masculinity and wants men to embrace their more feminine side which can only be a good thing!

almondpudding Tue 15-Nov-16 12:51:04

I've not seen it. is there a link?

Destinysdaughter Tue 15-Nov-16 12:51:16

*Perry not Peedy!

JinkxMonsoon Tue 15-Nov-16 12:52:32

I've been searching for a link (think the one I saw was via the Guardian on FB) but can't find it for the life of me.

exexpat Tue 15-Nov-16 12:53:50

This one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssHUgE29vy8

MaudlinNamechange Tue 15-Nov-16 12:54:57

Sorry, should have shared it in the first place.
here it is:

www.channel4.com/programmes/born-risky-grayson-perry/on-demand/62786-001

exexpat Tue 15-Nov-16 12:57:18

I went to a talk he gave the other week, and he also said similar things, but I think that although he hangs out with people from various parts of the trans spectrum, he is very clear about not being transgender. He made one comment about how someone dismissed him as 'just a cross-dresser' or something like that.

For him dresses are more about fetishism than gender identity, I think - though of course there are all sorts of cross-overs and grey areas to do with sexuality and identity.

Iloveswears Tue 15-Nov-16 13:01:28

He makes such a lot of sense. This should be shown in schools and kids given talks about being confident in your own skin and not paying so much attention to these strict gender roles that society has imposed.

MaudlinNamechange Tue 15-Nov-16 13:04:43

I don't understand that video is being remotely anti-trans (and nor am I) but it opens up a more nuanced set of positions than you get under "dresses = girls". I enjoy seeing it out there, being shared

ClaudiaWankleman Tue 15-Nov-16 13:19:25

exexpat From that video I didn't really get the fetish aspect of his cross dressing - more that he enjoys being a spectacle and drawing attention to himself. Did he mention a sexual aspect to it during his talk?

I once met him and he spoke a lot about his artwork of the time (tapestries) and I got the impression that the way he dressed was an extension of his artwork - making the human a piece of art. Subverting traditional forms of art (clothing or tapestry) and making it something unexpected and eye-catching.

At the time I thought it had something to do with the pop culture commercialisation/ cheapening of cultural objects and our bodies. Now I think that it more exposes the farce that is gender.

JinkxMonsoon Tue 15-Nov-16 13:34:36

I would argue it's impossible to separate the fetish from the cross dressing Claudia. And I don't think Grayson Perry would dispute that either. He talks about it being an aspect of his burgeoning sexuality in the film.

ghostlyghoulie Tue 15-Nov-16 13:35:41

I love this clip. It's so refreshing. We need more voices like this in the media. Please.

exexpat Tue 15-Nov-16 15:02:45

Claudia - he has always been fairly open about the sexual side of it, e.g. in this article. Maybe he's not quite so explicit in the video clip, but he certainly points in that direction with the part about discovering your sexuality being like fumbling your way in the dark and so on.

I'm sure enjoying being the subject of attention and seeing his own persona as an art work are also big elements of the appeal of dressing up for him too.

PrittStickandGlitter Tue 15-Nov-16 15:59:07

I haven't watched this yet but I will when I have a minute as I generally have a lot of time and respect for Grayson Perry.

However, just before I dash off, something someone said upthread about the word 'transvestite' seeming outdated and un-pc made me think of something I read recently written by Eddie Izzard who I've always been a big fan of. I've heard him refer to himself previously as a transvestite and remember an interview where he described himself, I think, as 'quite blokey'. The implication being that he is a man who enjoys wearing traditionally female clothes. However, these days he seems to be referring to himself as trans.

Who am I to speculate on other people's identity and the way they see themselves over time? It just struck me as odd and dare I say it, a bit bandwaggony?

LassWiTheDelicateAir Tue 15-Nov-16 23:50:58

I love that clip.

I love the fact that he was mildly annoyed by the fact that if he dressed conservatively he passed pretty well as a smartly dressed woman when he really wanted to be a man in a dress.

JinkxMonsoon Wed 16-Nov-16 09:18:57

Totally agree Pritt. Eddie Izzard used his "action transvestite" routine for years, and now he talks about being "trans" and having "boy DNA and girl DNA". I feel it's a bit bandwaggony too.

PrittStickandGlitter Wed 16-Nov-16 10:51:47

Gah, the 'boy and girl DNA' thing made me really eye rolly too. Utter bollocks.

ChemistryGeek Wed 16-Nov-16 14:15:07

Yes, wasn't it Eddie Izzard who used to say "they're not women's clothes; they're my clothes". ?

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