DFS advert

[Heratnumber7]

Have you seen the current DFS advert?

All the seamstresses and haberdashers are women and all the carpenters and users of big tools are men.

Why is that then DFS? Eh? Eh?

For shame on you.

[FifaFater]

Have you seen the new Barclays advert? 5 women talking about social media, not a career driven man in sight, why is that then Barclays? Eh? Eh?

[HillaryFTW]

Really, FIFA?

[FifaFater]

Ok ok that does deserve an apology, it wasn't meant to sound so hostile, I thought it sounded more cute in my head but reading it now it does sound bad, i'm sorry heratnumber7!!!

The OH did point the Barclays advert out the other day though, and she says she is seeing more and more ads promoting women solely which annoys her.

[HillaryFTW]

An advert, film poster, story etc that features wholly or mostly men barely registers, often, as it is the "norm". Like referring to a random animal as a "he" unless you know it is a female.

See also all male panels.

[HillaryFTW]

allmalepanels.tumblr.com

An all or mostly female production of one kind or another is far more likely to snag in the brain as unusual and therefore memorable. More and more ads promoting solely women - I'd be stunned if there were as many as those featuring more men, if a count was done across all day parts.

Anyway, the OP was discussing not an all female advert, but one in which each sex was undertaking its gender stereotyped job.

[modernladeee]

That's because men are usually carpenters and women are usually seamstresses. I'm a midwife and have met one male midwife in 20 years. Would you prefer midwives on tv to be played by men? Get real!!

[FifaFater]

Your going to have to give me examples, I provided you with the one I was talking about.

It's too easy to say Men are the problem because of this and that, without specific examples we will just go round in circles.

I actually think a lot of animals are called her until finding out it's a male, but then there are animals that can be called either based on their traits...

Lions are he's because they tend to use the flare of the males main as representing the species. or Hippos are she's due to their grandma esque style movement.

[FifaFater]

Your impartial example is a Tumblr post?

Would I go to an oil company website to highlight examples of failures in wind turbines?

It's hard to tell if DFS are promoting stereotypes, or whether theyre advert just reflects real life, my brother is a carpenter and jokes his daughter is going to be the worlds first.

[HillaryFTW]

"Hippos are she's due to their grandma esque style movement."

Eh, what?

Oh forget it. I doubt you are here in good faith, given your posts to date.

Sorry, op, I'm out.

[FreshwaterSelkie]

OP, there is something very weird going on in feminism chat at the moment. We seem to be unable to discuss feminist issues without men sneering at us and telling us to stop making a fuss.

I get your point. Lazy sexism in adverts is so annoying. And a legitimate topic for a conversation on feminism. Fifa, I think you might need to do a bit of reading on why people think this is an issue before you start weighing in on why it's not. I typed into google "gender" and the third result I got on the autofill was "gender stereotyping in feminism" - this article was linked

[FreshwaterSelkie]

bugger! *gender stereotyping in advertising, not feminism. Oh, for an edit button.

[ChocChocPorridge]

socialpsychonline.com/2015/08/culture-gender-stereotyping-advertising/

Starts out talking about the disparity in the US, then an interesting Italian/Netherlands study.

Let me roll out my example as to why what you see on TV shouldn't be representative of the population:

The three most popular colours of ipods, by a large margin, are black, white and red. If you go into the apple store, the chances are, that you will be going to buy one of those colours. If that was all they showed in adverts, or displayed in store, then how would you know that you could have one in green or purple?

As goes ipods, so go people. If you have only ever seen male pilots in books and on TV, it would be a lot less likely to enter your head as a girl that it was a career for you when you grew up. The obviously happens in the other direction.

This is why good TV, good books, have a balance of races and sexes in professions and don't fall back on stereotypes. You need to let people see the possibilities, not reflect back what's already there and needs to change.

[Heratnumber7]

I realise that currently seamstresses are usually women and that carpenters are usually men.
But 'twill be forever thus if TV in particular keeps on reinforcing that stereotype.

Banning showing people smoking in TV programmes contributed to making smoking socially unacceptable.

Showing people belting up in cars on TV helped wearing seat belts become the norm.

Showing female carpenters and male seamstresses on TV will encourage kids to consider those roles as jobs.

It won't change things overnight. Nothing will. But all these little things cumulatively make a big difference in the long term.

[FifaFater]

Herat

I disagree about smoking, most people wanted it, and therefore the weight of opinion made it unacceptable.

Your valid in that a man could be shown as a seamstress, however wouldn't that give ammo to the people who believe western civilisation is being overly feminised by the media?

I think women are more than capable of becoming carpenters, I know my brother is training his daughter the trade (although very young) but if they just don't want to they won't.

I see a lot of women talking about CEO's, and other high paid jobs, yet not one person has claimed women should fullfil the really dangerous and unwanted jobs too, until women occupy both there will always be an issue.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Have you seen the new Barclays advert? 5 women talking about social media, not a career driven man in sight, why is that then Barclays? Eh? Eh?

Actually I took this comment as being another example of silly stereotyping of women.

5 women wittering on about social media as opposed to having a proper conversation about banks and banking practice.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Banning showing people smoking in TV programmes contributed to making smoking socially unacceptable

I disagree. What made smoking unacceptable was the success of health campaigns and legislation which allowed employees or customers who didn't want to have to put up with other people's smoke had the right not to.

Showing people belting up in cars on TV helped wearing seat belts become the norm

The belt up/ clunk click campaigns were there to put out the message it was illegal not to. It became the norm as it was a driving offence not to.

Showing female carpenters and male seamstresses on TV will encourage kids to consider those roles as jobs

I'm surprised you are using the word seamstress; outside of an Elton John song I can't recall when I've ever heard it.

[whoputthecatout]

Your valid in that a man could be shown as a seamstress, however wouldn't that give ammo to the people who believe western civilisation is being overly feminised by the media?

We see this statement about feminisation a lot e.g. about primary teachers. When women were really rare in, say, politics, authority roles, particular careers, no one talked about western civilisation being overly masculinised did they? Why not? Because men = default. Women = other.

This attitude that when females become much more (or even a little more) common in certain roles it is a worrying thing really bugs me. Why is it apparently so awful that women are, you know, humans simply doing a job?

[FifaFater]

whoputthecatout

There were a few too many assumptions in that for me to understand how you got from putting men as seamstresses to the masculinisation of human history, and women being non human.

The idea of feminisation of the west, from my understanding is the unfair behaviour towards boys at lower levels now, record number of dropouts, record number of behavioural problems, record lows in results etc...

Having discussed this on another thread, online abuse, right wing activism is all on the rise, and mainly purpotrated by young disenfranchised men, it's a lash out to a recent change in the system that has alienated masculine behaviour. It's amazing how similar experiences of these young men are identical, even when they come from different regions, labeled trouble makers at a really early age due to their boystressness, and having a snowball effect until they consider themselves as bad and failures by trait.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"currently seamstresses are usually women and that carpenters are usually men"

There are male dressmakers and tailors, we just wouldn't use the word seamstress.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"This attitude that when females become much more (or even a little more) common in certain roles it is a worrying thing really bugs me."

There is actually a negative. When a job is seen as primarily a woman's job, pay and status tends to go down.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"As anthropologist Margaret Mead once noted, there are cultures in which men weave and women fish, and ones in which women weave and men fish. But in either case, the work that women perform is valued less."

In a way, doesn't matter what jobs we do.

[FifaFater]

You believe nursing, which is female dominated are valued less????

[whoputthecatout]

The idea of feminisation of the west, from my understanding is the unfair behaviour towards boys at lower levels now, record number of dropouts, record number of behavioural problems, record lows in results etc...

Yet when there was unfair behaviour towards girls*, e.g. banned from certain jobs, having to give up work when married, not allowed to be granted degrees on the same basis as men..... (I'm sure you are fair enough to agree that this used to be the case) no one talked about over masculinisation did they? Why not?

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

Agree with all of gwens posts

I think there was a chapter on that in the 'delusions of gender' book

[whoputthecatout]

Fifa: I believe this answers your question

www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html?_r=0