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Gamergate and feminism

(177 Posts)
AntiSocialInjusticePacifist Mon 24-Oct-16 20:30:57

My vector into feminism was through that gamergate thing, as being a gamer myself, I was used to videogames being blamed for every social blight that exists. I recall in the 90's when it was all about violence and all the data refuted the media hysteria, the same thing happened again with the Anita Sarkeesian woman and now suddenly the assertion that we're responsible for men being dicks women really grates, because I do not believe that games make men/boys sexist.

I will state flatly there IS sexism within the gaming community, I can point to examples that Anita missed, but my 'lived experience' is that it's not necessarily out of proportion with any other section of society, and certainly not causative I would genuinely like to see more women feel welcome within my hobby both as consumers, and creatively. Some of my favorite games have been designed/written by women.

Felascloak Mon 24-Oct-16 20:33:17

hmm
biscuit

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OlennasWimple Mon 24-Oct-16 20:40:01

"the Anita Sarkeesian woman" hmm

MostlyHet Mon 24-Oct-16 20:44:23

Hmm, you lost me too at "the Anita Sarkeesian woman" - I have heard enough accounts of Gamergate by friends who are involved in gaming, and whose opinions I trust to be impartial, to know that you phrasing it that way means you are siding with violent, misogynistic arseholes who doxx women, issue death and rape threats, swat people, all that sort of lovely stuff.

HapShawl Mon 24-Oct-16 20:55:21

Why is "lived experience" in quotation marks?

Felascloak Mon 24-Oct-16 20:56:40

He's been reading too many libfem websites and is trying to beat "us feminists" at our own game is my guess grin

It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing, but whichever way you look at it - games making men sexist, or sexist men being drawn to video games - gaming is rife with sexism. You only have to look at a game of CoD when players realise a girl is playing (especially if she plays well). We're intruders - if we're not playing something like Sims or Life is Strange, we're invading a "male space", even though it's never been officially designated as such.

Doxxing, rape and death threats, swatting attacks - the misogyny is absolutely rampant in gaming, and not just from gamers, but from the industry itself. Gamergate and all who support it are a stain on the gaming community.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FifaFater Mon 24-Oct-16 21:02:09

Anti

I'm clearly a gamer (Fifa lol) and I understand what you are saying. I have actually made some really good friends with a number of females through gaming and meeting them online etc, and have friends who's girlfriends play too.

I always found that in game females would get more sexually explicit attention, rather than flat out abuse, and they either stopped it dead or played on it. I've witnessed once where a group of guys turned nasty on a female gamer, and a few times where an individual has got aggressive only to be turned on by the rest of the lobby.

For the record, not knowing who exactly Anita Sarkeesian is doesn't make you the devil, she is not well know worldwide, and most of my family and friends would ask who it was if I brought her name up.

As a guy who recently returned from India helping homeless children, electrifying villages, and who supports Barefoot college in both India and Fiji (Great organisation), I find her divisive, and a bit of a con artist (not just the money she has raised and kept). She is a master of self promotion, but has little substance.

What I find very disturbing is that when someone doesn't fully agree with someone elses POV they are immediately attacked and dismissed ala 'you are siding with violent, misogynistic arseholes who doxx women, issue death and rape threats, swat people, all that sort of lovely stuff.' This is a pretty ignorant response to what can be considered a serious subject, especially when the accusation comes from a place of having 'heard enough accounts of Gamergate by friends who are involved in gaming'.

Lets discuss the issue, not attack the poster, it doesn't serve to help the discussion and possible solution.

FifaFater Mon 24-Oct-16 21:04:28

And for the record, guys threaten to rape and kill each other during the game too, it's common knowledge that when playing games like COD, GTA and Fifa the loudest threats come from the youngest players, sometimes as young as 10/11 years of age.

The gaming industry is far from perfect, but the main issues aren't being talked about.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HillaryFTW Mon 24-Oct-16 21:06:02

He's quoting me, Felas!

HillaryFTW Mon 24-Oct-16 21:06:38

Nngh, let's try that again.

He's quoting me, Hapsbawl!

HillaryFTW Mon 24-Oct-16 21:08:16

Shawl!

<gives up>

Felascloak Mon 24-Oct-16 21:09:00

As a guy who recently returned from India helping homeless children, electrifying villages, and who supports Barefoot college in both India and Fiji (Great organisation), I find her divisive, and a bit of a con artist (not just the money she has raised and kept). She is a master of self promotion, but has little substance.

WOW. Not only are you a man, but you are a help-the-starving-children thoroughly decent kind of guy. Yes you are right. Who cares that Sarkeesian got rape threats? It's just what happens and anyway she's not all that great
Thanks for clearing that up for us

I always found that in game females would get more sexually explicit attention

Which makes it fine? hmm

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist Mon 24-Oct-16 21:10:35

Ok then I lost you then, fair enough.

To Buffy thank you for the question, this is only my perception but the three areas I would identify are:

-There is a common enough attitude that I have noticed that women are less skilled at videogames than men. I've played things like World of Warcraft and known women to present as men, simply to get spots in good groups. This attitude is rubbish by the way, but it's interesting that a noob guy may get taught and assumed will in improve. An woman seems to carry this assumption wherever she goes not matter how good she is. I know it pisses off the women gamers concerned and I think they are right.

-Female gamers now eclipse men demographically, ie there are more women playing videogames than men by a percentage point or two. However whole genres of games are marginalised because they are mainly played by women. I am somewhat guilty of this myself as there is something called the hidden object game that is apparently massively popular amongst women that I haven't even tried yet, but at the end of the day a videogame is a videogame. What you personally like is a matter of personal preference.

-There is a problem with abuse, way before the Gamergate thing happened there was a female writer by the name of Jennifer Hepler. Now she happened to write for one of my favorite developers, Bioware, so I am fairly familiar with the details. In dialogue heavy story driven games, there is often the ability to skip through dialogue (which is usefull if you're playing through something again). All she argued is a facility to skip through combat portions (which is often the lion's share of gameplay in these titles), for those who are primarily interested in seeing the story. Perfectly rational and fair position if you ask me, and HORDES and I mean HORDES of people descended on her twitter, and made memes and basically treated her absolutely despicably. I think we need to shut that shit down hard when it happens.

I'll wrack my brains and see if I can think of anything else.

HillaryFTW Mon 24-Oct-16 21:10:49

FIFA

It's not so much whether or not you know who Anita Sarkeesian Is, But, referring to her as "the Anita Sakeesian woman" is very strange. No one would say "the David Cameron man", would they? She is Anita Sarkeesian.

the loudest threats come from the youngest players, sometimes as young as 10/11 years of age

And, in my experience, always male. Which suggests that actually, sexism is a huge issue, no matter how much you want to deny it.

HillaryFTW Mon 24-Oct-16 21:15:52

Past thread on GTA with an Anita Sarkeesian video linked on first page, for anyone wanting more background

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2078758-to-feel-scared-for-our-girls-when-kicking-prostitutes-in-a-video-game

FifaFater Mon 24-Oct-16 21:22:00

Hillary

Cameron is a worldwide figurehead, who lead the country for years and was internationally known as one of the most powerfull people in the world...

Anita Sarkeesian made a set of video blogs on how everything in gaming was sexist, and is nowhere near as popular or well known outside of niche circles. I would compare her popularity internationally to someone like Nathan Hughes (England rugby player). Massive name in a small circle, but if someone said 'that Nathan Hughes guy' nobody would blink an eye.

I understand people on this board are probably on edge of possible trolls (who btw come in ALL shapes and sizes), but to just dismiss everyone who holds an oppisite opinion is frankly silly. I personally would rather get trolled every now and then and hold a majority intellectual and respectfull conversation, than dismiss everyone with an opposing view.

Ovariesbeforebrovaries

Forgive me if I don't take your impartial opinion on loud mouth children being sexist males due to your username being pretty obvious of motivation. Like I said, respectfully, and very obviously, there are a lot of issues in gaming, in areas most havn't touched upon.

Felascloak Mon 24-Oct-16 21:24:01

Why don't you and anti go to a different board and then you can chat without us pesky feminists spoiling your fun?

HillaryFTW Mon 24-Oct-16 21:25:34

FIFA

I spotted you on a dads net thread earlier asking if mums here were friendly as you'd found other places hostile.

I'm finding your posts pretty hostile, tbh. Maybe think about that.

almondpudding Mon 24-Oct-16 21:26:15

'-Female gamers now eclipse men demographically, ie there are more women playing videogames than men by a percentage point or two. However whole genres of games are marginalised because they are mainly played by women'

How are the games marginalised? What does this mean?

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