Organised crime involvement in UK brothels

(16 Posts)
Felascloak Sun 25-Sep-16 13:16:39

Just read this
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/24/organised-crime-behind-uk-sex-trade

I'm not surprised about the involvement of organised criminals but I am surprised (and disappointed) that it's taken an independent body to map that out rather than the police doing it and responding.

It's almost like decriminalisation has already happened sad.
To me this illustrates why we shouldn't have decriminalisation. Trafficking for prostitution needs to be investigated and these women need protection whether or not "sex work" can be considered ethical. I'm concerned that under decriminalisation, trafficked women would be investigated by immigration (like illegal immigrants being bought in to work in restaurants for example) and they are already massively over stretched, so I can't see this being a high priority.
It's scandalous that it's already so widespread.

Felascloak Sun 25-Sep-16 13:16:56

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/24/organised-crime-behind-uk-sex-trade

WinchesterWoman Sun 25-Sep-16 13:29:05

I will read the piece but I see what you are saying about decriminalisation happening without legalisation. It's not a thorn that any political party or body such as the olive is willing to grasp.

WinchesterWoman Sun 25-Sep-16 13:29:29

Such as the olive? Such as the police

MatildaOfTuscany Sun 25-Sep-16 13:45:53

Mind you, for me, it's one of those "no shit, Sherlock?" moments. The only people who'd be surprised by this, I guess, are the lib fems who've bought the punter lobby line about "but it's all happy hooker independent escorts, innit, just exercising their freedom to choose their lifestyle within happy choicy-choice feminism-lite..."

Felascloak Sun 25-Sep-16 14:12:01

Yes it is matilda. I just struggle to understand how anyone could argue decriminalisation is a good thing if they'd read about the scale of trafficking.

I also have major issues with the way that decriminalisation would provide organised criminals with legitimate income and great money laundering opportunities.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sun 25-Sep-16 15:13:20

Fgs brothels are actually still illegal yet no one seems to be doing anything about it.

And City of Edinburgh council for one should hang its head in shame over its "sauna" policies- which finally now seem to be coming to an end.

Xenophile Sun 25-Sep-16 17:28:11

I just struggle to understand how anyone could argue decriminalisation is a good thing if they'd read about the scale of trafficking.

Sometimes, I just get the impression that a lot of the type of women that say this actually believe that there should be a group of women who exist to service men. Not them of course, but lesser women, those women, the expendable ones.

Organised criminals have pretty much taken over anywhere there is decriminalisation. Women and girls are moved from place to place constantly, even in the UK by organised gangs. I don't know how anyone who advocates for decrim sleeps at night, but they seem to.

MatildaOfTuscany Sun 25-Sep-16 17:42:44

Sadly, I think you're right Xenophile. It's a bit like rape apologists who want to believe that girls in short skirts bring it upon themselves, because then they can kid themselves that if they wear long skirts it won't happen to them. I've had some really quite chilling conversations with the Dworkin right wing woman type who really do want the existence of a sacrificial class of woman, so they can be kept safe from nasty predatory men.

And it's clear from the situation in Germany that trafficking and organised crime involvement in prostitution has gone through the roof since decriminalization. I remember a prostitute commenting on one of our earlier threads "you have to ask yourself where, as a pimp, you'd want to traffic women to - a country where it was illegal, there were harsh penalties if you got caught and more of a chance of being caught, or a country where it was legal, no-one gave a shit, and your illegality could hide behind the smokescreen of legal brothels" (she said that she actually preferred working in countries where prostitution was illegal - she got paid better and felt safer!)

Xenophile Sun 25-Sep-16 17:45:44

Germany is a case study in awful. I loved living there, but the stories I heard would put you off men for life.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sun 25-Sep-16 19:39:50

the type of women that say this actually believe that there should be a group of women who exist to service men. Not them of course, but lesser women, those women, the expendable ones

From what I have read on here and other places I disagree that is the motivation.

It seems to me to be more based either on extreme libertarian principles (let the market dictate everything) or misguided liberal principles (not for us to tell adults what to do and not wanting to be "anti-sex because being "anti-sex is the preserve of religious right wingers)

The libertarian argument is at least coherent, if wrong, and easier to argue against. The liberal one is not coherent but more difficult to argue against as the response will , of course , be you are a narrow-minded prude.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sun 25-Sep-16 19:42:33

Jean Urquhart for example, I very much doubt is motivated in her campaign, for the reason that there should be a class of sacrificial women.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest Mon 26-Sep-16 16:00:22

Surely if it's based on misguided liberal figures, then a simple run down of the statistics of the number of prostitutes who:
- Entered prostitution underaged
- Have drug or alcohol dependencies
- Suffer abuse
- Are coerced into prostitution
- Are trafficked
would be more than enough justification to think that actually, protecting the many, many women who need our support should outweigh the wants of a few, fortunate women (who may or may not actually exist) who really get joy, lots of money, and career fulfilment from sex work...

0phelia Mon 26-Sep-16 21:41:14

The police have known about all establishments I have ever worked in. They work to the level of damage limitation rather than totalitarian closure and this works well I believe. It keeps the girls safe.

The times I have been raided include a time where there was an untrue rumour that underage girls were working on our premises, the police walked out happy with us. Another time they came to check whether illegal immigrants were working and they asked to see all visa documents. Walked out happy. But they know exactly who you are.

The times places I worked at closed down include "House of Divine" which had 5-6 established brothels operating. The owner rubbed it into the police's faces by being quite blatant about girls and punters walking in and out of flats in a residential area. She ran it for almost a decade but started to get obnoxious and didn't keep a low profile. It closed down after many local complaints and she was sent down for living off immoral earnings. Many dodgy flats and sauna/massage places I know have closed. Usually for good reason.

In the industry you need to respect your local police and they will look after you. Closing down all establishments pushes the girls out onto the streets or into independent work which is far more dangerous.

The system we have in the UK is fine. I would hate legalisation.

This article is very superficial.

FruitCider Mon 26-Sep-16 21:43:55

I'm definitely against organised crime in the form of brothels.... But current laws around prostitution mean that prostitutes cannot work in pairs from a residence, as that is classed as running a brothel. This puts prostitutes in further danger as they are forced to work alone.

OlennasWimple Tue 27-Sep-16 03:40:07

Triads behind Irish brothels

Foreign gangs involved in Irish prostitution

Trafficking for UK brothels

As pp say, not a secret, just one of those things that the police aren't prioritizing.

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