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Rape victim on trial in Germany

(24 Posts)
VestalVirgin Mon 13-Jun-16 15:48:22

I am shocked to find out - didn't even appear in the media in 2012 enough so that I would have noticed.

Two men raped a woman, filmed it, and made the video public ... and then were found not guilty of rape. Despite it being on video.

And now, to add insult to injury, she's actually accused of false allegiations. Despite the fact that there's a video of the rape!

Here's the facebook site of the solidarity movement, with a more detailed description of what happened - scroll down for English version:

www.facebook.com/events/1731317210481982/

LassWiTheDelicateAir Mon 13-Jun-16 18:57:44

I think you have to have Facebook account to make that work. However this is her wiki entry.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina-Lisa_Lohfink?wprov=sfla1

Google has quite a few matches for Gina Lisa Lohfink but either all in German and several are clearly porn sites. I can't tell from the wiki article if the men were tried and found not guilty and then she was tried for the false accusations or if only she stood trial.

VestalVirgin Mon 13-Jun-16 19:04:24

Weird. I was not logged into facebook when I accessed the page.

They were tried and found not guilty. Despite the video. There was some bullshit about "She says no in the video but perhaps she only means the filming! It's not clear!", apparently.

Here's the text from the facebook page:

Since June 1, Gina-Lisa Lohfink is on trial for alleged false accusation at the Amtsgericht Tiergarten. In 2012 she had reported having been raped; the suspects had taken a video (against her will) and published it (against her will) but were found not guilty. The proceedings are a textbook example of reversal of perpetrator and victim and almost unrivalled cynicism

With those proceesings the German judicial system is opens a new era: Not only do victims – mostly women – have to expect that in the majority of the reported cases the suspects are found not guilty, by now there is the danger to end up in court as a suspect oneself when reporting rape.

We wont accept this. For the next trial day, June 27, we will gather in front of the Amtsgericht Tiergarten on Turmstraße 21. We want to show solidarity with Gina-Lisa and all victims of sexual/sexualised violence and to protest against the sexist conditions in society and the judicial system that treat sexual/sexualised violence as petty crime and direct their aggressions towards those who speak out about what was done to them instead of the perpetrators.

This concerns all of us. Sexual/sexualised violence and violence against women affect all classes and us as a society as a whole. Not only it’s victims are concerned but indirectly their relatives, loved ones, chosen families and all, that feel with them.

Solidarity with Gina-Lisa and all victims of sexual/sexualised violence!

It doesn't surprise me. It's like an extension of namalt, then women do it too, combined with the "fears" of false reporting. This is the next step, prosecute woman for daring to make an allegation against a man.

LurcioAgain Tue 14-Jun-16 22:18:16

Vestal, I wish I could say something that would help, but I'm just shocked by this. It is so crap. Hooray for those women planning a protest.

PalmerViolet Tue 14-Jun-16 22:25:37

I don't know what to say. I can't say that I'm shocked, because this is exactly what a certain kind of man demands every time a man is found not guilty of rape.

Massive solidarity with the women who will be protesting this.

KindDogsTail Sat 18-Jun-16 02:16:18

I do not read German so can't look up German news in German. Why, after looking at the video, does the judge say she consented? She is apparently clearly saying no in the video. Is the judge alleging she was an actress playing the part of someone saying "No"?

Does anyone here know?

www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-rape-20160616-snap-story.html
“This is a case that is drawing a lot of attention, and it’s demonstrated that when someone says, ‘No,’ that means ‘no,’ ” said Christian Pfeiffer, a former justice minister in Lower Saxony state. “But it’s actually not a good case to use as an argument for tightening the laws. The judge in this case took into consideration all the available film and concluded it was not rape. Based on the evidence presented, the judge had no choice but to dismiss the rape charges.”

KindDogsTail Sat 18-Jun-16 12:18:55

Using Google translate I found a recent German article. He is a translated extract from this German article.
www.bento.de/politik/fall-gina-lisa-lohfink-warum-das-deutsche-recht-vergewaltiger-schuetzt-und-opfer-bestraft-621468/

A "no-means-no" regime, as it exists in other countries, there are not in Germany. Although Germany has already in 2011 to an international agreement signed, which demands just that. The standard by which judges have to weigh in processes, whether a victim was raped is: resistance

Who does not clearly and physically resists the act, is therefore not raped by German law. There are exceptions, but that applies only to people who can not defend themselves. Approximately due disabilities or fear for life and limb.

Gina-Lisa Lohfink was but apparently, despite alcohol and drugs, not spaced out enough. According to the current legal situation of sex might therefore have been consensual. The judge estimated that the uttered "Stop" might not have the sexual act itself, but only individual parts counted as the oral sex. An external expert also noted that Gina-Lisa Lohfink not make the impression in the video to be under the influence of K.O. Drop

Not even a self-made video of a "rape" So sufficient under German law to be condemned. (You have the word here in quotation marks, because the Court has indeed held that there was no rape in this case.)

To illustrate this insane maladministration, a comparison is often raised: Who goes against your will with your car, is liable to prosecution. Who sleeps with you against your will, makes itself punishable only when you fight strong. (Spiegel Online) That this does not happen often but from fear, shock, surprise and horror, social pressures, expectations, education and so many other reasons, is not covered by the law. It is a scream

It is extraordinary that Germany of all places has rape literally protected by its current laws. With all their advanced science and humanitarian stance how do they not know that of the 'fight', 'flight' freeze responses an attacked animal/animal/woman/man will often freeze . And that even without violence the rape-sex will be felt by the body as 'attack'.

Roonerspism Sat 18-Jun-16 12:21:06

Fuck

buckingfrolicks Sat 18-Jun-16 12:25:22

Incredible. This shit should have been in the history books by now. How can any society still think like this?

BertieBotts Sat 18-Jun-16 12:29:33

That is fucking disgusting. I live in Germany, where and how can I complain about this?

Germany has a lot of sexist laws but I didn't realise the law on rape was so horrendously awful.

LurcioAgain Sat 18-Jun-16 12:46:35

This was widely discussed on some of the earlier and more thoughtful threads on the Cologne attacks (before the frothing racists hijacked the dialogue). The relevant article is article 177 of the German penal code, and there are groups of feminist lawyers campaigning against it. There is at least one international treaty on women's rights which Germany (alone of EU countries) has not signed up to because to do so they would have to strengthen their domestic law on sexual assault, and so far they have not been prepared to do so.

Incidentally, I don't think it's coincidental that they are also the European country with mega brothels and restplatz drive in roadside brothels. sad angry For me, the big take home message of Cologne (despite the fact that I genuinely believe Taharrush Gamea (sp?) is a new phenomenon in post-war peacetime western Europe) was that the level of institutionalised sexism in Germany and the weak laws on sexual assault and rape are appalling in a supposedly civilized nation.

KindDogsTail Sat 18-Jun-16 13:53:15

I saw some of those threads about article 177, Lurcio. I too had had no idea about this aspect of German law before other posters mentioned it.

It contradicts (the image at any rate) of what Germany is supposed to stand for - vigilance against allowing violence, mis-use of power or discrimination against a weaker group.

Archfarchnad Sat 18-Jun-16 14:29:49

"I don't think it's coincidental that they are also the European country with mega brothels and restplatz drive in roadside brothels. sad angry For me, the big take home message of Cologne (despite the fact that I genuinely believe Taharrush Gamea (sp?) is a new phenomenon in post-war peacetime western Europe) was that the level of institutionalised sexism in Germany and the weak laws on sexual assault and rape are appalling in a supposedly civilized nation."

Excellent comment, Lurcio. I've lived in Germany for long enough to realise that it's a few decades behind the UK and many other European countries with women's rights. Rape within marriage was only made illegal in 2000. When my elder DC was born in 1998 DH and I weren't then married and technically speaking the local authority automatically appointed a Vormund - a legal guardian - because single (ie unmarried, even if in a relationship) mothers were seen as vulnerable (not responsible or competent) members of society. We never saw that person, but the rule was only repealed a few years afterwards. Germany feels stuck in the 1950s socially - and I live in a big cosmopolitan city, so it must be so much worse in rural areas (I'm looking at you, Bavaria and Thüringen). Oh, and there was the acquaintance who went to sign on as unemployed around that time, and the job centre worker said 'You're a nice looking girl, why don't you try to make some money on the streets?'. She made a complaint and it was upheld, and he was disciplined, but the fact that he felt he could say something like that in the first place...

The one good thing to come out of this sorry tale is that a law is now being hurried through so that 'no means no' is anchored legally - apparently it should be passed before the summer recess. Up to now a victim could only prove she was being raped if she actively defended herself, ignoring the fact that many victims are paralysed with fear or have been threatened implicitly by violence.

As for Cologne, it was a form of terrorist attack which had nothing to do with the way society works normally, or the way the overwhelming majority of Muslim males behave here - and it was chosen specifically because the organisers knew that Germany was weak on pursuing sexual offences.

After 25 years in the country, I can definitely say that I've experienced much more gratuitous sexism and aggression from native Germans than from any immigrant group. The only time I've ever been physically attacked was by extreme right-wing Germans. Watching the distortion of the real situation on many threads and in the media in recent months has been horrifying, coming mainly from people who have little experience of what Germany is really like. Just about every young Muslim man (mainly Turkish and North African) I've encountered here in recent years has been friendly, respectful and polite, in stark contrast to the 'locals'.

KindDogsTail Sat 18-Jun-16 15:32:16

Archfarcnad
Thank you for this information about Germany that you have at first hand.

The one good thing to come out of this sorry tale is that a law is now being hurried through so that 'no means no' is anchored legally - apparently it should be passed before the summer recess
That is good news.

It was vile of the job centre worker to say that to your friend.. It could have influenced someone already vulnerable and it was a form of assault to say it to my mind. I am glad her complaint was upheld.

After 25 years in the country, I can definitely say that I've experienced much more gratuitous sexism and aggression from native Germans than from any immigrant group People need know the real perspective.

Felascloak Sat 18-Jun-16 15:41:50

Does that mean if you are drugged or too drunk to resist, or unconscious, you can't legally be raped in Germany? Is there another crime someone could be charged with in those circs? I'm shockef

KindDogsTail Sat 18-Jun-16 16:11:19

Felascloak
Does that mean if you are drugged or too drunk to resist, or unconscious, you can't legally be raped in Germany?

From that case it seemed to suggest that. I did not post the whole translation and don't have it now. I think the judge decided it did not look as though she had had the date rape drug (K..?) so maybe that might have swayed him; but being drunk did not count, and her saying 'No" did not count.

But from what Archfarcnad who lives in Germany said, the law is going to change to be consent based next summer.

Even with consent laws here, all the rapist says is there was consent and if there is no witness there is not much the police can do. But at least it's a start.

DId you see Channel 4 '24 hrs in Custody' which was about an [alleged] rapist and his victim the other night? The police interviewing the rapist actually missed the point that the rapist unwittingly admitted that he had failed to get consent for anal, digital rape/assault (at the least). He was not brought to court.

Archfarchnad Sat 18-Jun-16 17:08:39

OK, here's a report on the main TV news channel website, from 2 days ago:

'The two main parties have apparently agreed to reform the laws on sex crimes. The party spokesman of the Union explained that the principle of 'no means no' will be anchored in law. The draft law which has already been introduced to parliament [a bit like the first reading, I think] will be adjusted accordingly to include this principle.
The victim will now no longer have to defend herself [for it to count as rape], a clear verbal or physical negative reaction is sufficient. If this reaction is ignored, according to the new law a rape has occurred. In the law up to now, rape is only confirmed if violence has been used or the victim has been [physically] forced.... The law will now be passed before the summer recess [which I think is in mid-July].
As part of the new law there will also be a crime of 'sexual nuisance / molestation/ harrassment' [the word Belästigung has aspects of all these things], aimed at 'gropers'. There is also a new clause aimed at sexual crimes committed in groups. This is intended to send a clear signal against sexual attacks such as those at New Year in Cologne.'

It's shocking that it had to come to both these things – the attacks on 1 Jan and this court case against a woman who has herself been raped - but the vast majority of the population have made it clear that these changes are absolutely necessary. I saw an opinion poll a few days ago and something like 86% were in favour of the 'no means no' clause.

KindDogsTail Sat 18-Jun-16 20:13:54

Archfarchnad Sat 18-Jun-16 17:08:39
OK, here's a report on the main TV news channel website, from 2 days ago

Thank you very much for going to the trouble of posting this translation and the report.

It is very shocking that it had to come to both these things. I don't think any would have thought it possible that Germany had such an outdated laws. At least the change has come now.

VestalVirgin Sun 19-Jun-16 17:05:40

I really thought Germany was a civilised country, but apparently, such cases are just covered up very well.

There was a judge in, I think it was Rottweil, who let a man that raped his daughter walk free because, since he started raping the girl when she was nine, that was too long in the past to sentence him for (bloody stupid, but that's the law), and "she didn't fight him anymore in the past ten years", so the judge figured that wasn't rape. Because the rapist had his victim so intimidated (by threatening to kill the children that were the result of his rapes) that she didn't fight back.
It also was incest, which I am pretty sure is illegal in and of itself. And it is very clear who made the decision not to use contraception.

Yeah. And I only know this now because I read it in a feminist magazine. Mainstream press apparently is not much interested if a man holds his daughter prisoner for thirty years and rapes her every day. Or the scandal it is that this worthless piece of shit got to walk free.
I really don't understand why, the rapist in Austria who did somewhat the same thing was in the newspapers. Probably because he was convicted.

For those of you who speak German, the article was in the latest "Emma" and might be available via internet.

Felascloak Sun 19-Jun-16 21:35:34

Have you seen this?
www.feministcurrent.com/2016/06/17/german-woman-fined-24000-false-accusations-losing-rape-case-feminists-protest/
Apparently lohfink has been fined €24000 for false accusations. One of the men was fined €1750 for making a video of the event and circulating it on the Internet sad
It's disgusting. Poor woman.

LurcioAgain Sun 19-Jun-16 22:07:00

24000 euros when there's video evidence of her repeatedly saying no and stop. It beggars belief. What an evil, evil decision on the part of the court.

BertieBotts Mon 20-Jun-16 06:44:04

Holy fuck, vestal. That is beyond awful.

ZerenaZZ Tue 21-Jun-16 22:26:54

Beyond sickening. Germany is backward in a lot of ways.

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