Facebook rad-feminist groups

[Curviest]

Has any MN-er ever joined these groups, or is a current member?

I ask because I joined and was taken aback by the huge barrage of hostility I received when I mentioned I was heterosexual. It didn't say the group was exclusively lesbian.

Was I in the 'wrong' group, just unlucky, or are they all like that?

[VestalVirgin]

I only hang out on radfem blogs, and they're very nice and not exclusively lesbian - though most of my favourite bloggers happen to be lesbians.


Facebook is too public for radical feminim in my opinion. Never even considered joining a group there. Perhaps they know they're not safe enough, not at all anonymous, etc, and are therefore hostile to women they are not sure are proper radical feminists? Just a theory.

Perhaps groups are different from blogs. With blogs, people get to see your opinions first thing, and personal details later.

[singingsixpence82]

How interesting. I can't add anything useful but I had heard of this feminist world view but thought it was a thing of the past. I wonder if it would matter to them whether you were straight and in a relationship or straight and single.

[GreenTomatoJam]

I hang out in a couple of radfem places, I've only experienced support, camaraderie, and plenty of what seem to be lovely, awesome women, many of whom are lesbians, but certainly not all (including me)

Never tried a facebook one though - not sure facebook brings out the best in people.

[PalmerViolet]

Facebook is weird, but if it's the RF group I'm thinking of, (and there was a massive falling out about this from a girl who has been a lesbian for all of 5 mins) it's a good group, but there are some very odd people in it.

[VestalVirgin]

I wonder if it would matter to them whether you were straight and in a relationship or straight and single.

Straight and single out of principle rather than lack of opportunity should be okay - that state of being is called political lesbianism by some. (Others demand that you actually be in relationships in women to be a political lesbian. It is rather confusing. Apparently some believe that you can will yourself to become a lesbian.)

I wonder how this hostility started. Was it more like "I'm straight" and "You traitor!" or more like "But my boyfriend is totally different! Not all men!" with "Straight women! They're all the same!" as response?

The latter I could understand ... I have pointed out somewhere else that this is a problem with men in feminist groups.

The former would be rather unproductive and, well, stupid for a group that wants to further feminist thinking.

[SomeDyke]

"I wonder if it would matter to them whether you were straight and in a relationship or straight and single."

For me, the real issue is the whole nature/nuture thing at the moment the pendulum seems to have swung pretty firmly towards the born this way camp I understand that in terms of gay rights, but I never really ascribed to it myself -- I'm just LUCKY! But even just phrasing it like that, I have kind of assumed that being lesbian needs an explanation whereas being straight doesn't. So, if straight, expect to get prodded a bit, perhaps, and be expected to think about it a bit more.

But I think I'd agree with the Facebook is too public thing, especially when it comes to the gender and porn and sex-work critical radfems (like me!). Nowadays, unless you are a published author in that area so already public (and even then women like Julie Bindel and Germaine Greer get a hell of a time), it's just too dangerous to admit to political opinions like that in public.

But there are some GREAT radfem blogs out there!

[singingsixpence82]

Interesting thoughts somedyke and vestalvirgin. I hadn't realised that's what political lesbianism is although I've heard the term.

All the trans rights politics has made think about sex (male/female) and sexuality too. Like lesbians being called scum for not wanting to be in relationships or have sex with trans women. There's the idea that you are attracted to a person rather than their genitals. And I don't think it works purely on personality for most of us but if we did live in a genderless world where straight non-trans men could wear dresses and have flowing hair and wear makeup would straight women still fancy them? Do we need to keep some gender role expectations in place so heterosexuality still works? If men stopped "performing masculinity" and women stopped "performing femininity" would a greater number of us find ourselves more drawn to the person rather than their sex?

[VestalVirgin]

if we did live in a genderless world where straight non-trans men could wear dresses and have flowing hair and wear makeup would straight women still fancy them?

I would finally be able to find the man of my dreams, then. Well, minus the make up, perhaps.

Though Johnny Depp did look rather nice with all that eyeliner ...

Heterosexuality functions without gender performance. Animals don't perform gender. A male dog will run after a female dog in heat no matter how groomed her fur is.

And for humans, what is considered "masculine" is very different depending on culture.

Without performing gender, humans might have a bit of a problem to find out what sex someone is as the human nose is so degenerated, but that's really the only practical purpose gender performance serves - help people find out if that attractive person there is of their preferred sex.
However, we are an intelligent species and have other ways of finding out. (Pratchett's Discworld dwarves have no gender, and for them, the first step in romance is to very tactfully find out what sex the other person is ... I see no reason why this principle couldn't be applied in the real world. After all, it is rather rare that you can't see it immediately, anyway.)

That whole "But you should be attracted to personality" thing is nonsense. Men who can't live with the fact that lesbians don't like penis have a rather unattractive personality, too.(Which might be part of the reason why they're singles ...)

[WombOfOnesOwn]

Come to reddit's "gender critical" subreddits instead. Many non-lesbian women, both hetero and bi, and less overall hostility than in some, say, coffee house groups on facebook.

[Curviest]

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else had any experience?