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AIBU to find these comments odd regarding a rape

(29 Posts)
MarthaCliffYouCunt Thu 05-May-16 17:32:22

A woman was raped locally and the accused's bail application was heard today. During the hearing the prosecutor said the following;

"The attacker had no regard for the fact this woman was conducting an innocent activity, and no regard for the fact that passers-by could have come upon the scene."

Firstly, why is the nature of the woman's activity even relevant, let alone that it was "innocent"? (She was walking her dog in a public park) she could have been stabbing someone to death and rape still wouldnt have been justifiable!

Secondly, why should there be more concern for passers by who might happen upon the scene than for the actual woman that was being raped? confused why is that even mentioned?

IS HER TRAUMA NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE IT WRONG?

These comments have really annoyed me, probably more than they should, but thought i'd see what others thought?

Ninjagogo Thu 05-May-16 17:35:29

YANBU. I presume that the solicitor needed to say something....... The flowery language is suggesting that the victim was totally innocent, and not at all to blame. Probably.

TealLove Thu 05-May-16 17:36:39

That is a v odd way to describe a rape. YANBU

FutureGadgetsLab Thu 05-May-16 17:39:53

YANBU that's a strange thing to say about a rape.

Bambambini Thu 05-May-16 17:44:53

Unfortunately, I think it's to hammer home that the victim did nothing to bring it on herself and that the rapist was so dangerous in being so reckless to disregard any passers by that he is possibly very dangerous and u predictable. Basically, they are just trying to point out the seriousness of the case in the hope that the judge appoints bail accordingly. They are just doing their job.

Bambambini Thu 05-May-16 17:45:59

Sorry, that was a shit answer!

MarthaCliffYouCunt Thu 05-May-16 17:48:52

Yea of course, i had overlooked the context of the comments, i see that now, theyre trying to show how dangerous he is. The comments still sting a little. He (if guilty) is dangerous enough for the very fact he raped a woman. His disregard for passersby or what she was doing at the time shouldnt be necessary to bring up. But of course, i realise that they need to throw everything at the judge in order to keep him in custody.

Helmetbymidnight Thu 05-May-16 17:52:05

The least the attacker could have done was taken her off somewhere quiet!

Op you're not wrong, it comes across very oddly.

powershowerforanhour Thu 05-May-16 21:41:32

Yes...he is obviously very dangerous as he will rape innocent good girls walking their dogs not just bad girls out drinking. He ignored the risk of passers by...so the good girls can't be sure of keeping themselves safe in daylight places where nice people go (bad girls walking home alone down dubious streets are "other" and basically asking for it). Is there a risk of him raping somebody when on bail? Yes, and the scary thing is it might be one of the good girls like our families and not one of those other bad girls. Good old Northern Ireland values....maybe one day we will reach enlightenment.

MarthaCliffYouCunt Thu 05-May-16 21:44:40

It doesnt look to be happening any time soon does it power? angry

powershowerforanhour Thu 05-May-16 21:50:28

Sorry forgot to point out to those who don't know the case- thankfully he didn't get bail so won't be raping any innocent women in the near future. I hope that a rapist wouldn't have got bail if he had raped a drunk woman in a deserted alleyway, or a current or ex partner in their house, or a first date who was just expecting coffee...but who knows?

powershowerforanhour Thu 05-May-16 21:55:08

Nope. I did vote today (including for one DUP candidate- who is championing a particular issue affecting women, not for the other party clowns on the paper) but hey ho same old same old.

greybead Thu 05-May-16 21:58:30

Well I think the stuff with regards to passers by is because it's the criminal that they're considering letting out on bail, not the victim so it's relevant how he treated society in general (obviously badly) as well as the actual victim because he's being let back into society potentially. I also think the prosecutor probably said it to add weight to the request not to let this evil fucker out.

Perhaps they actually do let rapists out on bail in that area and the prosecutor was trying to avoid it in this case?

I think what the woman was doing was also relevant because again, the bail application is to let the criminal out - so saying that she was innocently walking her dog makes it less likely to let this criminal out on bail because she has no interaction with him whatsoever and was going about her business. It was all him, there can be no claiming that he was on a date and misunderstood her consenting or some bullshit like that. They are just basically saying that it's very obvious he's guilty.

I think the woman's trauma would be in the actual court case where it would impact the sentence.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Thu 05-May-16 22:11:42

The comments initially sound awful but I agree were probably intended to bring home that this is a very dangerous man. The bit about where the public could see him is not meant in a "oh my goodness imagine a random member of the public having to see this" but that this man is not deterred by the fact there could have been witnesses to his crime. Most criminals would consider that before acting. The "innocent activity' part on its own would be problematic.

powershowerforanhour Thu 05-May-16 22:27:21

Who is most likely to successfully carry out a rape while on bail- somebody with a very low IQ who doesn't consider the risk of passers by or the possibility of a sober victim in dog walking clothes escaping, or somebody cunning enough to select a drunk victim down a deserted alley round the back of a nightclub? I reckon both need locked up till the trial.

cadnowyllt Thu 05-May-16 22:44:19

Some time now since, I made a bail application for a client, but I think the prosecutor may have been stating that this was a random victim case and therefore not a case where the defence could have agrued for a condition of bail not to contact a particular person.

cadnowyllt Thu 05-May-16 22:51:17

Then again I'm fairly sure most of the previous posters know the arguments to be making in bail applications? whatever.

MarthaCliffYouCunt Thu 05-May-16 23:01:06

Sorry? I'm sensing that is a dig but i struggle with interpretting tone in text. Is it a dig?

cadnowyllt Thu 05-May-16 23:19:54

Apply your knowledge of bail applications and then weight it up. I think that will help

MarthaCliffYouCunt Thu 05-May-16 23:24:46

So it was a dig yes?

cadnowyllt Fri 06-May-16 00:08:37

Errr...yes. the presumption is that defendant are entitled to bail. The prosecution will seek to persuade the judge that whatever bail conditions are proposed by the defence, aren't applicable. One of the standard bail conditions is that the defendant will have no contact with the victim, a former partner for example - but here the prosecution is pointing out that it could have been any women and so that this particular condition wouldn't be of applicable

MarthaCliffYouCunt Fri 06-May-16 00:19:08

So what they^^ all said minus the dig?

VestalVirgin Fri 06-May-16 18:51:39

Secondly, why should there be more concern for passers by who might happen upon the scene than for the actual woman that was being raped?

Why, of course because the passersby could be males, i.e. actual people. /sarcasm.

No, really, I think it shows that the prosecutor subconsciously is aware that women are not considered fully human in society, and that it is therefore always necessary to point to the harm done to males to make a convincing argument.
Think of the innocent male children who might have witnessed this terrible thing!

It's not really the prosecutor who is guilty of sexism in this case, I suppose, as they were only assessing the situation and how to convince the jugdge that this man should remain locked up.

More a symptom of the disease the whole society is infected with.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Fri 06-May-16 18:54:28

The concern is not for passers bye.

WomanWithAltitude Fri 06-May-16 18:55:48

The context is a bail hearing so they are trying to emphasise how dangerous he is. That is why it sounds odd.

Most rapists are released on bail before trial. Many are even released on bail following conviction and before sentencing. The prosecutor will have had to lay it on thick to try to persuade the judge that this man is unpredictable and likely to attack again in order to get him remanded.

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