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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

I know it's been done to death but Game of Thrones

105 replies

ASAS · 18/04/2016 22:43

Please consider this a potential trigger warning if pregnant...

Stopped watching when I was pregnant because they killed a baby. My DS is now 4. It's on in the background while I potter about but I've just noticed a pregnant woman being stabbed in the stomach. Has it been 4 years of this level of violence? How does this even manage to get on TV?

OP posts:

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VestalVirgin · 18/04/2016 22:58

You watched this show for years and only now noticed that it is incredibly violent?

I thought this thread would be about the rape-as-tapestry problem. (I stopped reading the books when a girl child was raped by an adult man and this was portrayed as romantic.)

Never bothered with the TV series, but I am pretty sure it has always been that violent. Mostly rape, but also a lot of regular torture and murder.

You don't watch this with your son present? Please say you don't ... the thought of a four year old witnessing even three seconds of this series gives me the creeps.

ASAS · 18/04/2016 23:04

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I stopped watching 4 years ago. Saw again tonight for first time since, background noise while I'm busy. Also, it's 11 at night. My son is fast asleep upstairs. So hopefully you're uncreeped.

I just can't fathom how this got on to mainstream telly.

OP posts:

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 18/04/2016 23:11

Not sure why this is in feminist chat. There's a lot of men in the show who are killed and tortured, so it's not just the women.

Anyway, it's a well written, well acted tv show with a great plot and massive audiences so that probably explains why it's on tv. There's plenty of violent stuff on tv.

VikingVolva · 18/04/2016 23:16

Yes, lots of sickening violence, and yes, does seem to be escalating

But agree with WhoTheFuckIsSimon that the violence is delivered to both sexes in this programme. Not aimed specifically or disproportionately towards one sex.

VestalVirgin · 18/04/2016 23:20

Ah, good. Wasn't sure what timezone you are in, and this "in the background" looked like you weren't really paying attention to what it was before the woman was stabbed.

@WhoTheFuck:

You never noticed the gratuitious female nudity and the suspicious absence of gratuitous (or any) male nudity, and the fact that the TV series adds at least one rape that doesn't make much sense for characterisation and isn't there in the (already very misogynist) book series?

While "a pregnant woman is stabbed" may not be sufficient reason to discuss it on the feminist forums, the misogyny in the series as a whole certainly is.

VestalVirgin · 18/04/2016 23:22

And you never noticed that no men are raped in the series, despite its claim to be "realistic"? (Talking from second-hand information admittedly, but I am confident it is correct. I couldn't bring myself to continue reading)

The rapes are in there for titillation, I am pretty sure. If they were in for realism, the men would also rape each other. Men tend to do that in real life.

VikingVolva · 18/04/2016 23:24

I think people are concentrating on the level of violence because that is what the opening post is about.

ASAS · 18/04/2016 23:28

I'm really sorry. Silly as it sounds I'm actually a bit shaky over this. I had a precious, poorly baby bean in my tummy when I stopped watching because they killed a baby. Overs 4 years later, tonight, it was on in the background while I was busy getting some stuff done and I looked up and saw a pregnant woman get stabbed in the stomach. So I've not seen a huge chunk of it and imagine it's generally all shock and gore. But I can't get over these baby scenes. I don't know, it's made me feel physically sick.

Just a rambling thread really. Hugely popular show so I'm guessing I'm being a touch precious.

OP posts:

UmbongoUnchained · 19/04/2016 00:03

It's supposed to make you feel sick and uncomfortable. It's horrible but it's a reflection of the sort of era it is set in. I was pregnant when I watched all the baby scenes and yes it made me feel sick and I cried. But that's because it's a very well written show and it's doing its job. It's designed to shock.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 19/04/2016 07:11

I think there's a lot of strong female characters in the show. I don't remember much female nudity to be honest. Cersi when she had to do her walk of shame. Danerys (sp) is always semi nude but then so was her husband and so are most of her male advisors.

GreenTomatoJam · 19/04/2016 07:48

Every scene in Little Finger's bordello (even when there was a male prostitute, the women were entirely naked, he wasn't)

The witch woman - basically, we've seen every fairly young female character naked, and none of the men (I've watched a fair few of them, but I don't remember seeing a penis yet - perhaps the Reek torture?)

I don't intend to watch the next season. I came to the realisation that it's not healthy to watch murder and rape for amusement. It's not thought provoking, it's not realistic, or historical, it's a fantasy world where someone with complete control of that world maims, rapes, and kills people for fun.

I've stopped watching all the CSI/Criminal minds/pretty girl being murdered shows as well.

RufusTheReindeer · 19/04/2016 08:11

My husband and i started watching it

I stopped when i realised that i had seen more breasts in a few hours than i had over over 30years in female changing rooms

....and i was a breast feeding counseller for a while

Slight exaggeration but not by much

slugseatlettuce · 19/04/2016 08:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BadDoGooder · 19/04/2016 08:20

I have no objection to gore and violence, if it is appropriate to the storyline.
One of my favourite shows ATM is Vikings, but the violence in that is generally war/fight/male on male violence, what sex there is feels right in context and there are strong female leads.
I have always avoided GoT, it just seems to me like violent porn for Medieval fetishists.

Trills · 19/04/2016 08:26

If you have it on "in the background" and you don't know who is getting stabbed or why or what led up to it then of course it'll look like gratuitous violence.

Everything is gratuitous if you don't know the context.

It is a very violent show. Nasty things happen to lots of people. Nasty things are also done by lots of characters, even ones who you might "like". I still enjoy it though.

MrNoseybonk · 19/04/2016 08:46

When Renly was still in it, there were a few scenes with naked men.

There still is in Loras scenes, and others to be honest.
One of the things which annoys me about it is, in the books Cersei forces Jamie to have sex with her, but in the TV programme it's switched round, for no particular reason, but changes the whole character of the thing.
Even the Daenerys / Drogo rape scene was fully consensual in the books but turned into rape in the TV prog.

CommanderShepherd · 19/04/2016 08:55

The lack of male nudity isn't a GOT problem, it's a tv problem. You will always have full frontlal female nudity over male. Apparently the sight of a penis, even a flaccid one will send us clutching for our pearls.

MrNoseybonk · 19/04/2016 09:10

Full frontal male nudity including penis does happen on TV programs these days.
Spartacus was every episode, I though there had been in GoT too.

slugseatlettuce · 19/04/2016 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YvaineStormhold · 19/04/2016 09:33

I call it Game of Tits.

Don't like it. Feels gratuitous and not for me.

GreenTomatoJam · 19/04/2016 09:52

This is a weird thing to say, but there've been a couple of BBC shows with what I would call gratuitous full frontal male nudity now - the one that springs to mind is the Chris O'Dowd (Irish guy from The IT crowd) getting dressed in a drama called The Crimson Petal and the White - he just turned around while getting dressed, and there it was. Completely gratuitous, just hanging around - I think it's a step towards equality done like that, but did find it a bit of a surprise (and my first thought was that it was to justify having the women naked)

VestalVirgin · 19/04/2016 10:44

Even the Daenerys / Drogo rape scene was fully consensual in the books but turned into rape in the TV prog.

Fully consensual? Daenerys is under the age of consent in the books. She had to be aged up for the TV show because people draw the line at pedophilia. And she has been forced to marry him. She knows she'd better submit while he's gentle, lest he decide to use violence. (Which I heard he does later, anyway)

@GreenTomatoJam:
(and my first thought was that it was to justify having the women naked)

That's probably it.

MrNoseybonk · 19/04/2016 10:55

Daenerys is under the age of consent in the books.

What is the age of consent in Westeros?
I agree she had little choice since it was a royal, arranged marriage, but the sex wasn't forced in the books as it was in the TV series.

slugseatlettuce · 19/04/2016 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VestalVirgin · 19/04/2016 11:15

What is the age of consent in Westeros?

There is no age of consent because rape is legal and women's consent not needed. Duh.

If you need the exact age, she's 12 if I remember correctly. Not much older, certainly. That is a child in every sensible person's opinion. Biological facts do not change with cultures. (Also, Martin wrote this in a culture that knows that raping chidlren is wrong. He chose to make his fantasy culture a rape culture for no particular reason except that he could)

Not that she would have had any more choice in the matter at 18, but then she might at least have experienced SOME sexual feelings and desires that weren't directly linked to the rape trauma.

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