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EU and women's rights

(18 Posts)
NoBadassMcGee Thu 14-Apr-16 13:04:23

Really struggling on which to way to vote in the referendum.

Can someone cleverer than I please explain how voting to get out will affect rights for maternity leave, breastfeeding, equal pay etc etc ?


NoBadassMcGee Thu 14-Apr-16 15:34:05


VestalVirgin Thu 14-Apr-16 16:06:54

If you want for someone cleverer than you to reply, you will have to wait for longer than one and a half hours.

Here's a link:

Personally, I would opt to stay in. If your own country does something stupid (like illegalizing abortions) it is always good to be able to travel somewhere else without all the border problems.

NoBadassMcGee Thu 14-Apr-16 16:13:27

Thanks for your opinion and the link. Will have a look.

EBearhug Thu 14-Apr-16 23:23:15

There are some links here.

The Fawcett Society is saying the campaign is largely ignoring women's issues. So there's a surprise.

TeiTetua Fri 15-Apr-16 00:17:28

If Britain leaves the EU, would the European Court of Human Rights lose any jurisdiction in the UK? I don't know that it's ever had an effect on an issue that especially applied to women, but there's a possibility that it might. How favourable is the European court likely to be over transexual issues? That's one topic that's around at the moment.

FurryGiraffe Fri 15-Apr-16 08:04:18

The European Court of Human Rights is a separate legal organisation so withdrawal from the EU doesn't affect the jurisdiction of the ECtHR.

However, withdrawal from the EU removes a barrier to withdrawal from the ECtHR (because membership of the ECHR is a requirement of EU membership). There's also the possibility that the anti European brigade would be buoyed by a 'leave' vote and start pushing hard at exit from the ECtHR, but that's pretty speculative.

(Off topic completely, the ECtHR has championed trans rights and ECtHR case law was the driver for the Gender Recognition Act 2004. It hasn't been called upon to adjudicate on an intersection between trans rights and women's rights but if asked I strongly suspect it would sit on its hands and say 'balancing the conflicting interests of two vulnerable minorities is a matter for the decision of individual states').

DrDreReturns Fri 15-Apr-16 11:46:53

This isn't relevant to Women's rights, but I was shocked to discover that Russia was a member of the ECtHR. I don't see how that is compatible with their treatment of homosexuals. I guess they must just ignore rulings from the ECtHR that they don't like.

VestalVirgin Fri 15-Apr-16 12:13:21


Treatment of lesbians is relevant to women's rights, and also a symptom of misogyny.

However ... isn't Ireland a member of the EU, even though they routinely kill women by denying them abortions? (Okay, so apparently according to the law they have to allow abortions if the woman's life is in danger, but I remember at least one case where a woman died because she was refused an abortion, so there is that. I admit that I may not be fully up to date on how this is different in Northern Ireland, but I think it is most of the island that's Catholic and anti-choice.)

I don't have much trust in those institutions, but I also don't have much trust in countries' individual governments when it comes to women's rights, and with open borders, at least you can run away.

Also, mainland Europe seems to not be as crazy about trans rights as the UK, so from the British point of view, staying in the EU might be a good thing, even though other EU countries might be negatively affected by the ECtHR)

grimbletart Fri 15-Apr-16 16:53:01

The fact that Poland is a member of the EU doesn't seem to be stopping its Government wanting to tighten up its abortion rules.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Fri 15-Apr-16 19:30:39

It won't stop Poland doing that; what it prevents is Poland stopping anyone travelling to another EU country.

From an economic, cultural and political viewpoint I can't see any merit in leaving the EU.

FurryGiraffe Fri 15-Apr-16 19:35:40

Abortion isn't really an area the EU gets into. The EU does have human rights protections but in practice human rights issues are generally dealt with by member states or the European Court of Human Rights.

The European Court of Human Rights is quite hands off regarding abortion, as it is in relation to many morally controversial issues. Abortion isn't specifically protected by the Convention and there is no general right to abortion recognised under the Convention case law. They generally take the view that it's up to the state to decide how to regulate abortion, and they recognise moral considerations (including those founded on religious views about the commencement of life) as being a legitimate factor for the state to take into account in constructing legal frameworks regulating abortion. Consequently there are widely differing legal frameworks found in Europe.

VestalVirgin Fri 15-Apr-16 19:41:53

It won't stop Poland doing that; what it prevents is Poland stopping anyone travelling to another EU country.

Exactly. That's what I think the main benefit is.

It would be nice if the EU actually required its members to, you know, acknowledge women's human rights.

But as long as the EU isn't telling countries to oppress women more, I can see no harm in staying in. (I'd have to have a look at this trans rights thing to be sure if I'd want my country to stay in. But a Brexit doesn't seem advisable at this point in time.)

wigglesrock Fri 15-Apr-16 19:56:17

VestalVirgin - The 1967 amendment to the Abortion Act was not brought into NI, NI at the time had a devolved Stormont govt which was at the time was overwhelming Unionist dominated.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Fri 15-Apr-16 20:17:44

True but I doubt the Catholics in N.Ireland were clamouring for it to be brought in. It's the one point they did agree on.

LastGirlOnTheLeft Sat 16-Apr-16 12:35:34

Catholics and nationalist parties are more progressive than Unionists so why do people always try to attack Catholics on this issue? I'd expect better from feminists.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 16-Apr-16 13:33:54

Are you serious? You expect anyone , feminist or not, to not criticise the Catholic Church's stance on abortion and contraception?

LastGirlOnTheLeft Thu 21-Apr-16 21:12:42

Are you talking to me? confused You might want to work on your syntax as well as your anger issues, 'Lass'. Anyway, what was your question again?

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