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Very sad article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women

(182 Posts)
Italiangreyhound Thu 07-Apr-16 22:37:04

Interesting and deeply saddening article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women.

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

Italiangreyhound Thu 07-Apr-16 22:38:13

Sorry, if it has been posted before; hope it is useful.

KateInKorea Fri 08-Apr-16 09:52:24

That is horrifying. So depressing

RufusTheReindeer Fri 08-Apr-16 10:51:29

Will make 14 year old dd read this

I say make as i am not sure she actually knows what a book is

BadDoGooder Fri 08-Apr-16 11:07:30

Fuck that's a depressing article, and I say that as someone who has an "interesting" sex life.

This.....
7th grade girls are asking questions about bondage and S&M. Many of them have seen 50 Shades of Grey, and wonder if a boy wants to hit me, tie me up and stalk me, does that mean he loves me?

That fucking book has a lot to answer for as well. Making abusive relationships seem normal, and attractive.

This just makes me want to weep for women and girls everywhere....
When asked, “How do you know a guy likes you?,” an 8th grade girl replied: “He still wants to talk to you after you [give him oral sex].” A male high school student said to a girl: “If you [give me oral sex] I’ll give you a kiss.” Girls are expected to provide sex acts for tokens of affection, and are coached through it by porn-taught boys. A 15-year-old girl said she didn’t enjoy sex at all, but that getting it out of the way quickly was the only way her boyfriend would stop pressuring her and watch a movie.

angry sad

mudandmayhem01 Fri 08-Apr-16 11:17:28

I talked about pornography to my dd( 12) she says that boys in her year are already boasting about the porn they have seen, I wanted the message of what porn is really about to come from me first. What really upsets me is the anti sex education brigade are always horrified when discussion of pornography is part of SRE, it is important to these discussions with boys and girls before they are sexually active. I talked about consent and what sex in a loving relationship is like, missed out the consensual bsdm bit for now though.

dependadultundergarment Fri 08-Apr-16 11:28:36

I'm 26 and have had sex with some men who have a seriously warped idea of what sex is about.

Things like:
- very degrading dirty talk without prior discussion
- expectations around "rough" oral sex
- slapping the girl in the face with penis (!? happened with two different men, one asked if I liked it)
- expectations around spanking/light bondage
- been suddenly slapped across the face during sex by one man and called a "dirty slut"
- expectations around anal sex (and being able to go straight into it, no lube/warm-up, niche fetishes like golden showers occurring in quite young men (23 or so)
- not kissing during sex (at all. occurred with three men)
- sex in odd positions with limited bodily contact besides genital (emulating porn camera positions)
- one man wanted to watch porn while I masturbated him. the whole thing was mechanical, I don't even know if he got pleasure out of it, it felt routine like going for a wee
- expectation that there will be sex without condoms
- rough sex as "norm"
- lots of changing positions, going from oral to vaginal to anal, almost like the boredom threshold is very low
- nipple twisting/biting hard enough to leave marks (once had nipples that stayed erect for a week because they were so sore)

Where I say "expectations around", I mean they'll go straight for it without even asking if it's okay or prior discussion.

It's a shame, because I had to go through a lot of this, thinking it was normal. My Mum couldn't prepare me for it because I was a very private child and she had no idea how bad porn is nowadays, so couldn't explain what to expect from sex.

When I was younger, I tended to give the guys a pass for not knowing any better, but if I encountered someone like this at my current age I'd give him a wide berth. Sadly that might mean giving a wide berth to many men,

mudandmayhem01 Fri 08-Apr-16 11:41:24

Your post makes me so glad I am 20 years older than you. My experiences of sexual experimentation as a young woman varied from the amazing to crap, drunken fumbles but I never experienced any of those things.

imwithspud Fri 08-Apr-16 11:44:02

So depressing. I have two dd's. They're very young so this sort of talk is a long way off yet, but I dread what the 'porn culture' will be like by the time they're teenagers. I plan to educate and be as open as possible, but ultimately I feel powerless.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest Fri 08-Apr-16 12:10:10

I've not had as extreme experiences as depend but one thing that I've noticed is that some men don't seem to view sex as a mutually enjoyable experience - it's a performance that gets their end away, rather than enjoying giving the other person pleasure as well.

I'm not sure whether that's a new thing, or whether it's been worsened by porn (I imagine it has) but thankfully I've been assertive enough to tell these guys to get to feck - I can't imagine girls experimenting sexually for the first time will be.

flowilliamson Fri 08-Apr-16 12:19:26

This is honestly so sad. I hate to think that there are girls out there who don't think themselves worthy if a boy doesn't want sex or that they see it as something they just get out of the way.

Honestly, so sad that this is the world girls have to live in now.

booklooker Fri 08-Apr-16 14:02:10

I have sent a link to this article to the SMT of my school (not in the UK) to ask if we are doing enough, even if we are aware of what is happening.

It really is very sad. We have two DDs of the same age as the girls refered to in the item. I think they are safe, but can I really be sure.

I think this should be in 'Chat'

AnyFucker Fri 08-Apr-16 14:05:17

Yep, could this be reposted in other topics

You are preaching to the converted in here

BertrandRussell Fri 08-Apr-16 14:08:42

Italiangreyhound- please could you post this in "chat"? It's worthy of a wider audience.......

BertrandRussell Fri 08-Apr-16 14:09:08

Oops- cross post.

scandichick Fri 08-Apr-16 14:17:10

So how do you tackle this at the source? I don't see the availability of porn changing soon, so the only thing I can see that would make a difference is limiting how much porn teenage boys consume, and educate them on the difference between porn and reality. What else can you do?

BertrandRussell Fri 08-Apr-16 14:32:55

Education, education,education.

Stop denying it's a problem

Stop saying"all men look at porn , you're in denial if you think they don't"

Stop being "cool girl" about it.

Talk about real sex properly. To boys and girls.

Tell kids about how porn is made.

Stop telling girls that they are "empowered" by getting their tits out.

Stop calling feminists humorless man haters when they talk about this stuff.

Bring up our girls to believe that they can say "no" to men. And our boys to understand that that's OK. And not that no means yes and yes means anal.

BertrandRussell Fri 08-Apr-16 14:34:22

For starters.

And when I say "you" I obviously mean generic us. Not you. grin

Lottapianos Fri 08-Apr-16 14:43:19

Everything BertrandRussell just said. Compulsory sex and relationships education, at an age appropriate level, covering all of these issues at an appropriate time, from Year 1, throughout school. Absolutely no exceptions.

AnyFucker Fri 08-Apr-16 15:04:41

Yy Bertrand

grimbletart Fri 08-Apr-16 15:10:31

This didn't make me sad. It made me very angry. For years many of us have been saying how harmful porn is, how it degrades women (and men too TBH), how it can lead unstable individuals to commit violent offences. All the time the right-on "experts" and "cool brigade" have been telling us to stop pearl clutching and there is no evidence blah, bloody blah. And all the time the evidence is before their eyes. They just refuse to see it. How long are they going to dismiss evidence like that survey as "anecdotal"?

The single most important thing we can teach our daughters is that they are human beings, not put on earth to service those slaggy boys (NABALT) who feel entitled to get their rocks off by using females as meat.

The sentence that made me the most angry was the one from a girl who said how can she refuse "without hurting his feelings". Poor little male lamb. Why the hell does she have to worry about the feelings of every porn-fed male? Boyfriends are nice (the right ones) but they are not necessary and those sort are distinctly unnecessary.

I know the pressures are to do extreme stuff are worse now. I understand. But, in context and of its time, pressures were always there. The difference is that my generation of second wave feminists (which included most of my friends) did not hesitate to choose whether they wanted to do stuff or not. And if they didn't - "fuck off" was the appropriate response and it was used - frequently. And if that resulted in being accused of being frigid or a prude, so what? We simply didn't care. Even as teenagers we had learned the world does not turn just because adolescent boys says it does.

Sorry, that's a rant. But, I feel so let down by these porn-using males and TBH I feel just as let down by girls who worry about hurting boys' feelings. angry

RiverTam Fri 08-Apr-16 15:15:06

I agree with what Bertrand said but far more conversations need to happen between parents and sons. So much if what I read deals with empowering girls, which is obviously good, but ultimately pointless if parents aren't having similar conversations with boys.

scallopsrgreat Fri 08-Apr-16 15:27:08

Agreed RiverTam. Its almost the opposite talk for boys. Disempowering them so to speak:

No you are not entitled to sex - Sex is not a need or a right
No your wants do not come above the wants of your partner
Women and girls have feelings and they matter
Sex is a collaboration not something you do to someone. Nor is it a trade.
Your partner may not like what you like - and that's OK
Coercing someone into sexual acts is abusive

I think these conversations are way more important than conversations with girls. We aren't going to change the dynamic until male entitlement and violence is addressed. That's the cause of the problem, not girl's reaction to that.

mudandmayhem01 Fri 08-Apr-16 15:27:44

What's happened to teenage boys, when I was a teenager, boys were so excited at the thought of having sex with a real human girl they used to virtually worship me. Any sex at all is so novel as a teenager, there is no need for all the non vanilla stuff that older consenting adults might use to spice up their relationships. Sadly I know the answer to this, porn has happened.

booklooker Fri 08-Apr-16 16:40:04

yy to Mud

I remember a girl telling me to kiss her feet before I was allowed to kiss her face.

I duly obliged.

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