New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

[7Days]

Well its not anti trans really. Namely pro sex segregation rather than gender segregation. If you are going to have segregation it should be on something that has real world effects. A lot of men like being around women in a vulnerable and intimate situation. A few men activly take advantage. Most women dislike all levels of this. They feel uncomfortable, looked at, very aware that this guy migt be one of those baddies we've heard about since childhood or even been hurt by on some occasions. That's not on it's very restrictive for fifty per cent of the population to varying degrees.

[almondpudding]

Women's rights don't divide neatly along right/left, religious/secular lines. Religious people and right wing people are allowed to contribute to women's rights. They're not some kind of enemy.

[AnnaForbes]

I dont see it as anti-trans, I see it as a sensible move to protect women's space and I welcome it. Anyone who wants to contribute to the advancement of women's rights should be lauded.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

It isn't anti-trans.

[VagueIdeas]

It's been portrayed as anti-trans, of course. Even saw something cited which said (I'll have to paraphrase) that when trans people are denied the right to use their bathroom of choice, their risk of suicide increases.

Which I felt dubious about to say the least.

[SenecaFalls]

The Charlotte ordinance that was the target of the North Carolina legislature was a broader ordinance forbidding businesses from discriminating against LGBT individuals. What North Carolina has done is to pass a law banning local governments from enacting anti-LGBT discrimination ordinances that are broader than just who uses which restroom. All in all, this is not a good thing. And the religious right in the US has never been on the side of women.

[AnxiousMunchkin]

I don't see this as anti-trans either. It's not discriminating against anyone on the grounds that they are trans. It's not saying people who are trans can't go to a toilet, it's not saying it's ok to be abusive or violent to them, it's not saying they can't dress how they want or present how they want or call themselves whatever they want.

It's simply saying that biological males, use one facility, and biological females use another.

[VagueIdeas]

It was actually this piece in The Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/24/north-carolina-anti-transgender-bathroom-law-dangerous-discrimination

[SlowFJH]

The flaws in the new law have been pointed out very succinctly by J P Sheffield (a very masculine trans man / biological female) who tweeted a picture of himself with a message to the moronic Governor Pat McCrory - "It's now the law for me to share a restroom with your wife".

I think McCrory is going to end up on the wrong side of history.

[SenecaFalls]

The law is anti-trans. It's also anti-LGB. In fact, it's mostly anti-LGB.

[almondpudding]

This bill does not prevent trans people from using the facilities of the opposite sex.

It stops people who claim to be trans but have never been through a process of making it official on their birth certificates from doing so.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Oh there's that phrase again "wrong side of history" 🙄

TA's might as well wear little bells around their necks, so obvious is their m.o.

op - a transman is still a woman, lacking a penis. What is the flaw?

[AnxiousMunchkin]

How is it anti-LGB Seneca? How is sexual orientation relavent to sex segregation vs gender segregation?

[almondpudding]

Why is McRory's wife even being brought into this?

Who is she and what does she have to do with the bill?

[SlowFJH]

Alisvolatpropiis
Have you seen what Sheffield looks like? North Carolina is a "Stand Your Ground" state wrt self-defence. If he went into a women's restroom his life could be at risk from some other right wing moron carrying a gun.

[almondpudding]

Actually I've looked her up.

She's a domestic violence campaigner, working on campaigns with North Carolina Women's Council.

She's called Ann.

[SenecaFalls]

It's anti-LGB because it involves more than just sex segregation issues. To quote from one article:

"The North Carolina state Legislature has passed a law blocking local governments from passing anti-discrimination rules to grant protections to gay and transgender people." (Emphasis supplied.)

And

"The new law establishes a statewide nondiscrimination ordinance that explicitly supersedes any local nondiscrimination measures. The statewide protections cover race, religion, color, national origin and biological sex — but not sexual orientation or gender identity." (Emphasis supplied)

Here is the full article.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/24/471700323/north-carolina-passes-law-blocking-measures-to-protect-lgbt-people

[SlowFJH]

Almond
I would have no issue at all with John Sheffield using a male toilet. The new law says he must now use the women's. Is that progress? For you or him?

[almondpudding]

If he is a man and it says so on his legal documentation, then he can use facilities for men. If he's not he can't.

What has that got to do with him going into a toilet with Ann McCrory. Why is he even mentioning her as an individual? What is her part in this bill?

[FloraFox]

almond it seems that in this situation Ann McRory is the nameless wife of a politician. So much feminism.

[SlowFJH]

Correction, his name is James Parker Sheffield. The law says he must now use the women's room.

[SenecaFalls]

It stops people who claim to be trans but have never been through a process of making it official on their birth certificates from doing so.

In North Carolina, as in many US states, that requires undergoing sex reassignment surgery.

[almondpudding]

Then he's not a man.

The law allows men, including trans men who have changed their sex legally to use men's facilities.

It's pretty low to go in for this 'your wife' business. She's involved in some pretty major campaigns around DV. I doubt she's going to be perturbed by a beard and a hunting cap, if that's what we're supposed to be worried about.

[SlowFJH]

Oh jeez .. he didn't mention her by name. He simply made the point to the Governor (to bring the point home), that he (as a bearded, butch, masculine, trans man) would have to use the woman's toilets.

Why are you so afraid of what trans people might do in a public toilet? My guess is that most of them just go there to use the toilet. Why do you have a problem with that?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

I have a problem with biological men accessing safe spaces for women. Be that toilets, changing rooms, refuges, rape crisis centres or hospital wards.

There's a reason mixed sex hospital wards are no longer practised in the UK.

You can feel you are something with every fibre of your being, that doesn't make that feeling fact.

I respect transwomen's (and men's) right to live their lives in a way that makes them happy. I agree they should be legally protected. I fundamentally disagree that they are anything other than trans. They are not men/women. They are trans men/women. This is as valid a state of being as any other, so why the need to deny reality?