rebranding TERF

[PosieReturningParker]

I want to rebrand TERF and have some ideas about alternatives.

3Fs. Feminism for females
FCF female centred feminism

And I'm going to use #DEW Don't Erase Women

Or DEF females

[Snowshimmer]

I like "female centred feminism".
Which is what it should be...

[JAPAB]

When people use terms to dismiss and discredit the opinions and arguments of others, making a joke of those terms or their usage might sometimes help. I'm sure you've heard, for instance:

What is a racist? A racist is someone who is winning an argument with liberals.

What is mansplaining? Mansplaining is when a man is stating opinions or making arguments that are unpopular with feminists.

I'm sure "what is a TERF?" could be adapted suitably.

[PosieReturningParker]

However it is rebranded I don't care. It would be nice for feminist opposition to the male entitlement of the trans activist agenda to have something of their own.

[PalmerViolet]

What is a racist? A racist is someone who is winning an argument with liberals.

No, it's someone who discriminates against people on the basis of their race or perceived race. Sadly most racists are either very right wing, stupid or occasionally, both.

What is mansplaining? Mansplaining is when a man is stating opinions or making arguments that are unpopular with feminists.

No, it's when men continue to witter on about subjects they know nothing about to the very people who are experts in the field. For example, a man endlessly trying to justify street harassment women experience as "just fine, how else are men supposed to meet women" or "it's fine and not a problem" is mansplaining.

TERF can't be reclaimed really, because it's a slur used against anyone who doesn't agree that a woman is simply a man with his dick cut off, or even a man who likes pink and wants to be called Marie.

Sadly, it's kinda hard to argue with stupid. I find it's best to just ignore it and move on.

[CoteDAzur]

I like Female-Centred Feminism.

To replace TERF, you need to come up with an acronym that ends with Feminist, though. As in, "I'm not a TERF, I'm a XXF".

[StitchesInTime]

FCF would work as both "female centered feminism" and "female centered feminist", wouldn't it?

Although it doesn't roll off the tongue in the way TERF does. More vowels needed?

[CoteDAzur]

A person can't be female-centred, though. An ideology or movement can be female-centred.

[annandale]

I don't like 'female-centred feminism' at all, it's not my view of what feminism is so that must be right then

Dull but I prefer gender-critical. Would rather not say gender-critical feminist as that's a tautology.

[StitchesInTime]

I don't really understand what "gender-critical" means.

Is that roughly the same as TERF? Or the opposite of TERF?

[annandale]

Oh God I'm no expert.

To me if someone calls me 'trans exclusive' it would be because they think I don't think people who identify as trans should have 'access' to the gender they identify with. Perhaps that's not what they mean.

Whereas gender-critical means I think that 'feeling like a woman' or 'feeling like a man' is almost entirely socially constructed and people should be free to feel the way they want without having to label it 'woman feeling' or 'man feeling' in order to be accepted or to have access to support.

You can tell I'm no expert and that's for sure.

[PosieReturningParker]

As soon as we started using the word gender we seemed to have lost woman!

[CoteDAzur]

And it seems to me that the only reason the word "gender" was even created in the English language is because of people's reluctance to use the word "sex".

I've said this before but there are people/languages that don't have a word corresponding to "gender". They do fine without it.

[StitchesInTime]

I think I understand what you mean by gender critical, Annandale. Although, unless I'm misunderstanding things (entirely possible, as this whole subject and all the doublethink surrounding it makes my head hurt), isn't the notion of feeling like a man/ woman being a social construct an argument also used to justify the concept that a transwoman is exactly the same as a biological woman?

I do wonder whether there'd be as many transwomen if we lived in a society where it was socially acceptable for a man to go out wearing pretty dresses and high heels and make up and still confidently declare that he's a man who identifies as a man, without any fear of ridicule from other men.

[CoteDAzur]

"isn't the notion of feeling like a man/ woman being a social construct an argument also used to justify the concept that a transwoman is exactly the same as a biological woman? "

Can't be, since the transwoman has NOT been socially constructed into the gender of a woman and instead was socialised first as a boy and then as a man.

[JAPAB]

What is a racist? A racist is someone who is winning an argument with liberals.

No, it's someone who discriminates against people on the basis of their race or perceived race. Sadly most racists are either very right wing, stupid or occasionally, both.

I think you are misunderstanding it. Of course there actually are racists, and mansplainers, and people who are transphobic (in the sense of being motivated by prejudice, intolerance of those who differ, or malice). But also there are people who will say claim "racist!" about anyone who voices negative opinions on immigration, multiculturalism, or various cultural practices and those who practise them. There are those who will claim mansplaining irrespective of whether the man who is making the arguments they disagree with has, by any objective measure, been patronising or condescending or doing anything other than simply making a disagreed with argument. I was quite amused by a claim of mansplaining on the Telly Addicts forum about an article written by a woman. I strongly suspect that what happened there was that the poster had just assumed that the article had been written by a man, disagreed with the opinions expressed in it, and so played the stock dismissal card to dismiss "his" opinions. And people have complained here about TERF and transphobic being used as dismissal tactics about any questioning or concern about trans-related issues, despite them actually no doubt being warranted in other circumstances.

[StitchesInTime]

Cote - I completely agree with your point. That's a point I should really have included in my post.

I was just thinking that I'm sure I've seen that argument about social constructs being used by trans-activists before as a reason for not defining men / women by their biology (again, not a reason I agree with).

[uglyswan]

Stitches - the way I see it, there's been a split in gender critical thought. We all agree on the basic tenet "gender is a social construct", but one fraction has interpreted this as "gender is a social construct, therefore everyone should be free to construct their own sense of gender identity outside of and in resistance to social norms" while the other fraction would says that "gender is a social construct and an ideological tool of patriarchal oppression and it's got to go ".

I think there are lot of problems with the first statement, only one of them being that instead of criticising gender as ideology, they have set up a new definition of gender in its places and instead of dismantling it, they've reified it and made it even more impervious to critical thought. Another, more obvious problem is that this interpretation is inherently selfish, it prioritises trans-people's pleasure over biological women's safety and sense of comfort.

[JillyTheDependableBoot]

I like "gender-sceptic/al" as a term.

[Sofiria]

uglyswan, that's it exactly. I was reading a YA book the other day with a 'genderfluid' protagonist and it was immensely frustrating because there was a lot of awareness of gender as a social construct, with this character arguing that they shouldn't have to choose between dolls and trucks, make-up and football, etc. - except that their conclusion wasn't that everyone should be free to choose what they like but that they 'felt like a girl' some days and 'felt like a boy' other days. There's one passage where they switch from one to the other and describe going from sitting up straight with their legs crossed to slouching and sprawling (girl and boy respectively, obviously...) The character - by extension the author, really, as there's no indication that there's an unreliable narrator - completely and rigidly reified the concept of gender.

The book annoyed me. If I'd read it as a young teenager, though, I'd have been very confused by it.

More broadly on-topic, some years ago feminist groups online used to use 'women born women' to distinguish women's interests from the trans* lobby. Haven't seen it recently, though.

[uglyswan]

Oh god, Sofira, I completely understand your frustration. I mean, why not just sit in a manner that is both comfortable and considerate, without feeling the need to reposition yourself within an obviously irrational all-encompassing system of identities, my friend? Why not just do that?

Essentially, gender is paranoia.

[PosieReturningParker]

Perhaps we should also come up with a word for Trans who erase women.....

TEWs?? Or Wets Woman Erasing Trans?

[0phelia]

I like DEF as a rebuke.

You call me a TERF? You are DEF.
(Don't erase females)

So and so is DEF Because they are happy go erase females.

It works as a defensive weapon, Oh and look DEF can also mean "DEFensive" as a subtext, which is what callers of "Terf" are. Defending their beliefs by closing down debate.

[0phelia]

Erasing Women.

You are EW. You are Erasing Women.

You support EW. You support Erasing women.

??

[0phelia]

Sorry, That was all a bit off tangent and not what you're trying to do at all!

[0phelia]

DEW is better as a rebrand, but DEF sounds more like a rebuke to callers of Terf. Ok, bye.