Talk

Recieved..... over & out.

what's a "certain group" ?

anyone can post here

It's an open Internet forum, one of the largest in UK.

If you need some privacy, this is not the right place.

Already this looks like a goady, attention-seeking post

You could have simply name changed without drawing attention to yourself. You have have desisted from insulting a whole "group" of people.

You have already devalued whatever question and discussion you wanted to raise.

Ok, I own a small sport type of business - probably 90% of members are women. We have female and male changing areas. All good. I don't know if I'm spending too much time on mn, where it seems there are almost daily threads about it (sorry to add to them), but the whole trans issue is causing me a bit of worry. If transwoman insisted on using our small female changing area, I actually feel that I would be too frightened to ask them not to. Where do I stand on this legally? Actually, legally is only one of my concerns. I don't fancy an aggressive backlash against me or my business. I don't fancy losing members either, who mostly would not be happy to have their changing area encroached upon.

I feel so torn about this. In principle I want people to live their lives and be happy. But I feel it is just a matter of time before I have to deal with this issue. Any thoughts?

Eeek, steady on AF! Not goady, just a bit anxious

Happy for anyone to check with hq, have been around for ages.

There was no need for the cloak and dagger stuff, really.

Speak to a solicitor?

Do you actually have any trans women clients, and are they pre or post op?

which "group" is it you didn't want to "attract" ?

Yes your probably right re cloak and dagger.

This is where I'm feeling conflicted. I object to the idea of 'identifying as female' as if it's just a feeling. But if someone 'passes' then i won't know, members won't know and I'm hardly running genital checks. But what if someone doesn't 'pass'? What if an obvious male decides to use the changing facilities? How am I supposed to deal with that?

I did, a few months ago, have a transwoman come in actually and use the women's toilets and I was so taken aback I didn't say anything.

By 'group' I mean aggressive transactivists.

have you seen any "aggressive" transactivists on MN ?

Ha well the thing is, there seems to be so much conversation around it, not just on here obviously, and references to women women deemed 'anti-trans' being hounded online, that I was feeling a bit anxious. Hopefully unfounded.

I expect you have seen this thread

Yup, been thinking about this since a transwoman basically pushed past me and went into female toilet, which sort of did feel quite confrontational, but that thread promoted me to post. Didn't really think my wording through, am very much a 'post first, think later' type

Are you talkign about toilets (cubicles, I expect) or open plan changing areas ?

It makes a difference, I think

Open plan changing area and quite small. You have to go through them to get to the female toilets as well.

At the moment the law isn't particularly clear. The equalities act says you can't discriminate against someone on the basis of gender reassignment but it's not clear exactly what 'gender reassignment' means (name change / dress / gender reassignment certificate / physical changes etc). There are also some exceptions to the rule I think (although the recent response to the trans inquiry asked whether those exceptions are proportionate or not).
It's fine to ask the question OP, although please don't assume transactivists are all scary woman-haters (there's a few nasty people but we're generally very nice )

Ok, great thanks Vashta. Can I ask, then, what are your thoughts on situation I've posted. Small, open plan female changing room leading though to toilets. Transwoman, clearly male, heading in there to get changed. What's reasonable?

Not an easy one tbh! Most trans people find situations like that terrifying and avoid them like the plague so it's not likely to come up that often. Are there any design changes you can make so it's a bit more private for anyone getting changed (not just trans people)? Like a curtain or something?

You're obsessing over nothing and being goady in the process.

Really, a transwoman pushed past you to go to the toilet? Honestly?

Basically, you need a very good reason to justify refusing services to someone based on gender identity. So anything you can do to avoid the situation completely, the better!